Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations” | Trump demands Ukraine capitulate by Thanksgiving

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nycfan said:
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This isn't a great deal for Ukraine but it's certainly not everything Putin wants. Putin would like to have a puppet state like Belarus on his borders. He's getting a western aligned country with Zelensky still in charge for now.

But it's definitely not a great deal. Ukraine is going to lose a lot of territory. But they're losing the war, their us and European allies are wavering and they are running out of people. This is a deal they might need to take.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
This isn't a great deal for Ukraine but it's certainly not everything Putin wants. Putin would like to have a puppet state like Belarus on his borders. He's getting a western aligned country with Zelensky still in charge for now.

But it's definitely not a great deal. Ukraine is going to lose a lot of territory. But they're losing the war, their us and European allies are wavering and they are running out of people. This is a deal they might need to take.
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Not a great deal? It’s a fucking terrible deal and there’s no way they can accept it as is.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Not a great deal? It’s a fucking terrible deal and there’s no way they can accept it as is.
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Maybe they'll get a few minor concessions but the hard truth is they are losing territory and people pretty much every day. If Ukraine allies aren't willing to provide massively more aid, I don't see that changing.

It's easy to sit in North Carolina and say they need to hold out but it's not our kids and husbands dying and coming home without limbs. They could possibly get the same deal in another year after they have lost another 10,000 or 15,000 more people. Or not. Maybe Putin keels over or gets overthrown because Russia is losing many more of its citizens every day. Or maybe Russia is at it's breaking point and the lines collapse. I'm sure Zelensky probably has intelligence from the Western allies which would give him a pretty good idea.

But I'm guessing the most likely scenario is that the war keeps grinding on, and Ukraine keeps losing more people and territory until they finally say no more. If that's the case, it's probably better to take this bad deal today then get the same bad deal or worse in a year.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Maybe they'll get a few minor concessions but the hard truth is they are losing territory and people pretty much every day. If Ukraine allies aren't willing to provide massively more aid, I don't see that changing.

It's easy to sit in North Carolina and say they need to hold out but it's not our kids and husbands dying and coming home without limbs. They could possibly get the same deal in another year after they have lost another 10,000 or 15,000 more people. Or not. Maybe Putin keels over or gets overthrown because Russia is losing many more of its citizens every day. Or maybe Russia is at it's breaking point and the lines collapse. I'm sure Zelensky probably has intelligence from the Western allies which would give him a pretty good idea.

But I'm guessing the most likely scenario is that the war keeps grinding on, and Ukraine keeps losing more people and territory until they finally say no more. If that's the case, it's probably better to take this bad deal today then get the same bad deal or worse in a year.
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Or orangeturd could have sent support-and enforced Sanctions many months ago And encourage Europe to do the same and send Russia home
 
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