Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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SnoopRob said:
You know you've fallen far when the French are ready to go to war and you're happy being on the sidelines.

I wonder if the French will start referring to American cheese as freedom cheese?
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For all you Europe slurpers and Russian economy experts. Laughable anyone thought we should keep funding Ukraine because we could just wait Russia out as their economy is about to collapse. I said many times as long as the oil flows they can keep waging war.

Europe is bankrolling the Kremlin War machine: talk of unity is nonsense
 
Looks like trump knows a bit more than the ZZL experts and is the only one who seems to have a grasp on the futility of continued war. He may prevent WW3

“Take sanctions. They were meant to bring the Russian economy to its knees and cripple Putin’s war machine. Perhaps they might have, if Europe had been willing to give up the fatal addiction to Russian energy that Trump repeatedly warned about back in 2017. Since the invasion the Kremlin has made close to a trillion dollars from oil and gas sales – much of it from European customers.”

“But in any case the UK has little to do with this in principle or practice. And as Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk admitted after the London meeting, there was “no unity” on seizing Russian assets in Europe. Though all leaders present agreed it was a good idea, he said that some countries “feared the consequences either for the euro or the banking system”.

“If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If European leaders’ tweets were missiles, the Kremlin would now be a smoking ruin. But what Ukraine really needs is a swift end to hostilities and practical help to become free, prosperous and independent. Everything else is just virtue signalling, paid for in Ukrainians’ blood.”
 
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SnoopRob said:
You know you've fallen far when the French are ready to go to war and you're happy being on the sidelines.

I wonder if the French will start referring to American cheese as freedom cheese?
Click to expand...
The Germans are going to start referring to American beer as swill.

I'm sorry, I meant continue.
 
Callatoroy said:
Looks like trump knows a bit more than the ZZL experts and is the only one who seems to have a grasp on the futility of continued war. He may prevent WW3
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Hmmm, how exactly did blowing up his press conference/deal with Zelensky in the Oval office get us closer to peace? Seems like it would have been much easier to not publicly ambush Zelensky and just sign the minerals deal he claims to want?
 
Callatoroy said:
For all you Europe slurpers and Russian economy experts. Laughable anyone thought we should keep funding Ukraine because we could just wait Russia out as their economy is about to collapse. I said many times as long as the oil flows they can keep waging war.

Europe is bankrolling the Kremlin War machine: talk of unity is nonsense
Click to expand...
What Ukraine needs is a swift end to hostilities, not virtue signalling paid for in blood FROM LINK

Can't read link, but from this headline I find it interesting that the author seems to know what's best for Ukraine. All this worry about Ukrainian blood or is Trump really worried about Russian blood?
 
rodoheel said:
Hmmm, how exactly did blowing up his press conference/deal with Zelensky in the Oval office get us closer to peace? Seems like it would have been much easier to not publicly ambush Zelensky and just sign the minerals deal he claims to want?
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Ambush? Mere ZZL conspiracy theory. That sure was some coalition Biden put together and led wasn’t it? About as effective as him trying to find a way to get off a stage. And you guys wanted to re-elect him again. Hahahahahahah
 
Callatoroy said:
Ambush? Mere ZZL conspiracy theory. That sure was some coalition Biden put together and led wasn’t it? About as effective as him trying to find a way to get off a stage. And you guys wanted to re-elect him again. Hahahahahahah
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Hey look, example # 100 of callatoroy trying to change the subject when he doesn't have an actual response. Who said anything about Biden? Why are you bringing up Biden? We're not arguing about anything Biden did and no one is defending what he did. The question is solely whether Trump upon taking office, is actually moving us towards a lasting peace and away from the possibility of WWIII.

if you don't think what happened in the Oval office was planned in advance, you're a fool. You think Vance just extemporaneously decided he didn't like the cut of Zelensky's jib and went off script? LOL. This is no conspiracy. Trump is a showman and reality TV star at heart, and he designed a made-for-TV moment. One that certainly did nothing to move us closer to peace. In fact it's Trump's own actions that have all the European leaders warning that we're headed for war.
 
SnoopRob said:
You know you've fallen far when the French are ready to go to war and you're happy being on the sidelines.

I wonder if the French will start referring to American cheese as freedom cheese?
Click to expand...
So after Europe failed to maintain its sanctions and gave Putin a trillion dollars while not even funding Ukraine at the level of the US, macron wants to call out the US? We can’t actually take this measure, but fuck Europe. They allowed this so they can deal with it. Looks like trump and the US will bail Europe out again.
 
rodoheel said:
Hey look, example # 100 of callatoroy trying to change the subject when he doesn't have an actual response. Who said anything about Biden? Why are you bringing up Biden? We're not arguing about anything Biden did and no one is defending what he did. The question is solely whether Trump upon taking office, is actually moving us towards a lasting peace and away from the possibility of WWIII.

if you don't think what happened in the Oval office was planned in advance, you're a fool. You think Vance just extemporaneously decided he didn't like the cut of Zelensky's jib and went off script? LOL. This is no conspiracy. Trump is a showman and reality TV star at heart, and he designed a made-for-TV moment. One that certainly did nothing to move us closer to peace. In fact it's Trump's own actions that have all the European leaders warning that we're headed for war.
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Seems your ability to think has been affected by TDS. Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace and the ZZL has been ripping him and suckling Europe. And you are full of shit in your claim that nobody was defending Biden.
 
Bobfripp said:
Typical Pub, not providing a gift link ... :(
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Only for you Dr Bob. Was in my Apple News so I didn’t have the paywall

Sir Keir Starmer and our European allies have issued a lot of brave words and fighting talk on protecting Ukraine and taking on Putin. “We are at a crossroads in history today,” Starmer said after the London summit, announcing a “coalition of the willing” to support Zelensky. “European unity is at an extremely high level not seen for a long time.” Is it, though?


The truth is that Europe last year paid far more money to Putin’s coffers in the form of oil and gas payments than it has given to the Ukrainians – and continues to do so. Europe today imports far more Russian liquefied natural gas, or LNG, from Russia than at the beginning of the war.


Most of the “shadow fleet” Russia uses to avoid sanctions are also owned by European, especially Greek, companies. Germany’s ascendant right wing AfD party is openly calling for a reopening of the surviving branch of Gazprom’s Nord-Stream 2 Baltic gas pipeline. Europe’s big talk of fighting Putin is hypocritical nonsense while they are bankrolling the Kremlin war machine.


Take sanctions. They were meant to bring the Russian economy to its knees and cripple Putin’s war machine. Perhaps they might have, if Europe had been willing to give up the fatal addiction to Russian energy that Trump repeatedly warned about back in 2017. Since the invasion the Kremlin has made close to a trillion dollars from oil and gas sales – much of it from European customers.


Even as bombs began to rain down on Kyiv, and as Brussels passed successive rafts of sanctions, Russian gas was never subject to any restrictions or penalties. It was Putin, not Brussels, who shut down gas exports through Nord Stream in July of 2022 in a crude attempt to squash Germany’s growing arms supplies.


Two months later saboteurs – definitively fingered by German and Danish investigators as Ukrainians – blew up three of the four undersea Nord Stream pipes. All of Europe was forced to scramble for alternative supplies of LNG from the US, Canada, Qatar and… Russia.


In 2024 EU member states bought €21.9 billion of Russian oil and gas – but only gave €18.7 billion in financial aid to Ukraine, according to a report by the Helsinki-based Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air. Russia is currently Europe’s number two supplier of LNG, after the US, up nearly 14 per cent in 2023.


Until January 1 of this year Gazprom was still supplying Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia with natural gas through a pipeline that runs through Ukraine. Russia has continued to pay nearly a billion euros a year in transit fees for this gas to Kyiv through subsidiaries in Switzerland. Mind-bogglingly, that made Gazprom one of the largest taxpayers in Ukraine for the first three years of the war. Even after the shutdown of the trans-Ukrainian pipeline, though, Southeast and Central Europe continue to buy Russian gas indirectly through Turkey.


It’s a similar story with oil supplies. Foreign Secretary David Lammy announced the UK’s new sanctions package recently, claiming that we “continue to set the pace in ratcheting up the economic pressure on the Kremlin.” Among the measures were sanctions against 40 oil tankers involved in “pouring money into Putin’s war chest.”


But that’s a mere 40 of the over seven hundred tankers shipping Russian oil. One would be forgiven for imagining that these “sanctions” on Russian oil exports mean that it is somehow banned. It’s absolutely not. Instead, the US and EU have imposed a $60 per barrel price cap, versus a market rate for Urals Crude of $62 a barrel in December. And even that tiny difference is childishly easy to get around by accounting tricks.


Lammy also claims to have “with partners, already denied Putin access to $400 billion.” What weasel words. The UK holds next to no Russian Central Bank Assets directly. Most are in Belgium’s Euroclear system and the rest in the US – and there’s still no consensus on what to do with those funds or how to legally confiscate them.


But in any case the UK has little to do with this in principle or practice. And as Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk admitted after the London meeting, there was “no unity” on seizing Russian assets in Europe. Though all leaders present agreed it was a good idea, he said that some countries “feared the consequences either for the euro or the banking system”.


The Poles, by the way, have also announced that they will form no part of the Starmer-Macron peacekeeping force. And they are sceptical of Ukrainian membership of the EU for fear of their agriculture being massively undercut by cheap imports. Hungary’s Viktor Orban, meanwhile, has denounced the London meeting’s decision to “go on with the war instead of opting for peace.” This is “bad, dangerous and mistaken.” So much for European unity.


“Today, it became clear that the free world needs a new leader,” posted EU foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas on Sunday. “It’s up to us, Europeans, to take this challenge.” Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte claimed that European countries were “stepping up” to make sure Ukraine has what it needs to “stay in the fight as long as it has to continue.”


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If European leaders’ tweets were missiles, the Kremlin would now be a smoking ruin. But what Ukraine really needs is a swift end to hostilities and practical help to become free, prosperous and independent. Everything else is just virtue signalling, paid for in Ukrainians’ blood.
 
Callatoroy said:
Seems your ability to think has been affected by TDS. Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace and the ZZL has been ripping him and suckling Europe. And you are full of shit in your claim that nobody was defending Biden.
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Hey dumbass I didn't say no one ever defended Biden I said no one is defending him as part of this conversation. This conversation is simply not about Biden. It's about Trump. The fact that you feel the need to reflexively reference Biden in defending Trump is an implicit acknowledgement that you can't defend his actions on their own merits.

As to the larger point, the idea that "Trump is the ONLY one who has been trying to achieve peace" is laughable. Trump is simply the only one on the Western side foolish enough to believe that "peace" on the terms Russia wants is a good idea. Europe wants peace on terms that discourages Russia from further incursions and punishes it for its brazen invasion, not encourages and rewards them. Anyone who believes a deal on Putin's terms is going to lead to lasting peace is more gullible than the people who believed Trump when he said he didn't know what project 2025 was and had no intention of implementing it.
 
Callatoroy said:
Looks like trump knows a bit more than the ZZL experts and is the only one who seems to have a grasp on the futility of continued war. He may prevent WW3

“Take sanctions. They were meant to bring the Russian economy to its knees and cripple Putin’s war machine. Perhaps they might have, if Europe had been willing to give up the fatal addiction to Russian energy that Trump repeatedly warned about back in 2017. Since the invasion the Kremlin has made close to a trillion dollars from oil and gas sales – much of it from European customers.”

“But in any case the UK has little to do with this in principle or practice. And as Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk admitted after the London meeting, there was “no unity” on seizing Russian assets in Europe. Though all leaders present agreed it was a good idea, he said that some countries “feared the consequences either for the euro or the banking system”.

“If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If European leaders’ tweets were missiles, the Kremlin would now be a smoking ruin. But what Ukraine really needs is a swift end to hostilities and practical help to become free, prosperous and independent. Everything else is just virtue signalling, paid for in Ukrainians’ blood.”
Click to expand...
Do you throw away the pubes you get in your mouth when gargling Trump, or do you keep them as mementos?
 
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