Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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When Trump stopped the meeting today to take a call from Putin he not only showed total disrespect for those leaders attending, he also made it clear to them that he is indeed Putin’s bitch. A lot of diplomacy is not so much what is said, it’s based in a large part on what isn’t said, how something is said, or by physical actions. To leave those people waiting while he took that call told them, and the rest of the world, where that stupid worthless POS leader of this country stands on the matter of the war. He is clearly on Russia’s side and, based on that action of his, I don’t think there’s anyway of changing his position. In diplomacy, actions lots of times speak louder than words.
 
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nycfan said:
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I realize Macron is sucking up to Trump because that’s the only way to get Trump’s attention.

Trump will fuck over the US, Ukraine, France, Germany, the EU, NATO…….

Trump looks at all these Euro leaders as being willing to suck his dick.
 
Zoo_View said:
I realize Macron is sucking up to Trump because that’s the only way to get Trump’s attention.

Trump will fuck over the US, Ukraine, France, Germany, the EU, NATO…….

Trump looks at all these Euro leaders as being willing to suck his dick.
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Probably so, but let's not forget Trump is always about the "deal" - about money $ - and if Europe will bank roll $100 billion in arms sales to Ukraine, buying from "Trump" (U.S. Arms manufacturers) then that goes a LOOONNNGGG way in Trump's mind. Never forget he's nothing but a grifter and a con man. And even a con man/grifter usually realizes when he's finally gotten the best deal for himself and his bottom line.

As far as Putin is concerned, once he realized (or realizes) the arms sale will happen, and Ukraine will be getting boat loads of U.S.-made weapons and armaments, he may come around. AND add in the fact that Trump has threatened put added sanctions on Putin and Russia (Trump calls them Tariffs, but the rest of the intelligent World knows it to mean sanctions), Putin may finally realize the jig is up.

But even given all of that, look for Putin to try and wriggle his way out of all of that, continue the war and try to keep on keeping on hoping that all 3: Ukraine, Europe and Trump/U.S. will cave in somewhere along the line.

Unfortunately I think that's what Putin will eventually do. More death and destruction in Ukraine and Russia. And at the end of it all, Little Marco and U.S. War Hawks will count it as a win here in the West. Remember: somebody in the Trump admin has already said "nobody gives a shit here, what happens over there. It won't effect our daily life in the U.S." And at the end of the day, the U.S. gets $100 billion from Europe. Trump has been crying for 9 years about how Europe hasn't been spending enough money on defense... $100 billion ain't chump change, and the U.S. Military and munitions manufacturers will get that Ca$h.
 


“We’re not losing American lives, we’re not losing American soldiers, we’re losing Russian and Ukrainian mostly soldiers, some people as missiles hit wrong spots or get lobbed into cities like Kyiv and towns …”

Trump implies that Russia is only accidentally killing civilians before allowing that missiles may be lobbed into cities (he pronounces Kyiv the Russian Kiev way) and towns.

He also apparently doesn’t think of soldiers as people(?)
 


As background, no one gave away Crimea. Russia took it by force:

IMG_9010.jpeg

“… After the annexation, fighting broke out in eastern Ukraine between pro-Kremlin militias and Kyiv’s forces. Moscow threw its weight behind the insurgents, even though it denied supporting them with troops and weapons. There was abundant evidence to the contrary, including a Dutch court’s finding that a Russia-supplied air defense system shot down a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet over eastern Ukraine in July 2014, killing all 298 people aboard.

Russian hard-liners later criticized Putin for failing to capture all of Ukraine that year, arguing it was easily possible at a time when the government in Kyiv was in disarray and its military in shambles.

The fighting in eastern Ukraine continued, on and off, until February 2022, when Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

… By the time Russia annexed it in 2014, it had been within Ukraine for 60 years and was part of the country’s identity.…”

apnews.com

What to know about Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula seized by Russia from Ukraine over a decade ago

Russia’s illegal seizure of the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 was quick and bloodless, and it sent Moscow’s relations with the West into a downward spiral unseen since the Cold War.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
Two things appear to be defining this charade --

1. Putin WILL NOT compromise unless he has absolutely no other choice. He never has. He never will. He doesn't want peace (and I truly can't believe Trump is stupid enough to think he does). There will never be a breakthrough in these negotiations if they depend on Putin making voluntary concessions.

2. Trump does not care what actually happens. All he cares about is being able to SAY he did something great. That's what he's done with each of the other "six wars" he claims to have solved. His story about each of them is vastly different from reality, but he couldn't care less. All he wants is to be able to say he solved wars, whether he did or not.

The only way for both of those egos to be satisfied is for Ukraine to capitulate. And sadly, it's entirely up to our former European friends to prevent that from happening.
 
nycfan said:


As background, no one gave away Crimea. Russia took it by force:

IMG_9010.jpeg

“… After the annexation, fighting broke out in eastern Ukraine between pro-Kremlin militias and Kyiv’s forces. Moscow threw its weight behind the insurgents, even though it denied supporting them with troops and weapons. There was abundant evidence to the contrary, including a Dutch court’s finding that a Russia-supplied air defense system shot down a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet over eastern Ukraine in July 2014, killing all 298 people aboard.

Russian hard-liners later criticized Putin for failing to capture all of Ukraine that year, arguing it was easily possible at a time when the government in Kyiv was in disarray and its military in shambles.

The fighting in eastern Ukraine continued, on and off, until February 2022, when Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

… By the time Russia annexed it in 2014, it had been within Ukraine for 60 years and was part of the country’s identity.…”

apnews.com

What to know about Crimea, the Black Sea peninsula seized by Russia from Ukraine over a decade ago

Russia’s illegal seizure of the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 was quick and bloodless, and it sent Moscow’s relations with the West into a downward spiral unseen since the Cold War.
apnews.com apnews.com
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Trump: “… they wanted Crimea back. That was given. Not a shot fired by President Obama in perhaps the worst real estate deal I’ve ever seen.

There’s been a couple of’em. I would say the Gaza Strip is a pretty bad one too, given by Israel so they’d have peace. So they gave away a big percentage of their ocean-front property in order to have peace. How does that work out? Uhhh not so good.

And uh Crimea is the uh apple of Ukraine, I mean, it’s so beautiful and uh Obama gave it away. Nobody ever mentions that. If I did that the fake news would be after they would be writing about me day and night for years. He gave it away. He demanded that they let it go and Russia came in and took it just took it like from like candy from a baby.

And it was really Obama’s, really, that was pure and simple Obama’s fault. What a terrible thing he did to them, that country. And so they lost their heart, they lost their heart and soul of the Ukraine 14 years ago whatever it might be and uhhh it was so unnecessary to do that, and that’s when it really began, when Obama gave it away.”

[I added paragraph breaks for readability but no pause was actually taken … I also apply punctuation not really supported by his stream of consciousness]
 
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