Russia - Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Callatoroy said:
Does europe exist anymore other than a place to visit Amalfi or Paris? I mean isn't it time for them to step up? They have a vested interest. Where's margret thatcher when you need her?
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You keep saying this. Do you not realize that the European countries have given more than the US and have a gdp about one third smaller? They are also working on another huge aid package that willl further distance their giving from ours. That’s not to say our aid is not needed. We have weapons that they don’t that are immensely important. You also said earlier we have given $150 billion a year to Ukraine. Why do you feel the need to lie to support your position?
 
Callatoroy said:
Why is that your

Under no circumstance was russia going to withdraw back to its original borders. That isn't my opinion, that's a very common and accepted opinion. The same applies to nato membership for ukraine. Just not going to happen if russia is going to negotiate a peace. The US has no leverage other than continuing to throw money at ukraine to extend until ukraine loses the war of attrition. russia has all the leverage because they can continue to ship oil to fund the war. So, you can keep sending ukraine 150 billion a year for the next 5 years until ukraine runs out of dudes to fight, or try to negotiate a peace deal that secures long-term security for ukraine and creates far less instability in the world.
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Long term security for Ukraine? lol Trump gives less than zero fucks about Ukraine, loved their minerals though.
 
nycfan said:
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“… The draft resolution for the U.N. General Assembly, seen by Reuters, condemns Russian aggression and reaffirms a commitment "to the sovereignty, independence, unity and territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognised borders".

"In previous years, the United States has consistently co-sponsored such resolutions in support of a just peace in Ukraine," one of the sources, who like the others requested anonymity to discuss sensitive matters, said on Thursday.

The first diplomatic source told Reuters that the resolution was being sponsored by more than 50 countries, declining to identify them. …”
 
Ramrouser said:
I fully understand why people believe that Trump is "selling out Ukraine" and giving in to Putin with his recent statements and actions. Keep in mind, Trump has multiple goals in these negotiations:

1. Settle the war under the realistic terms by allowing Putin to retain the captured territory in exchange for security guarantees for Ukraine;
2. Improve/normalize relations with Russia. China is the real threat and we must sever or loosen the Russia - China alliance;
3. Force Europe into paying a greater share of the defense/security of Ukraine or rebuilding of the country;
4. Secure repayment of the loans we've made to Ukraine via mineral rights or direct payments. Doesn't want US to be a "sucker."

So, he's making these very public statements about Ukraine in order to back Zelensky down a bit and make him be more realistic about the terms of a settlement.

Trump's making nice with Putin in public to soften him up and throw off China. Trump wants Russia back in the fold and not squarely in China's corner. Putin likes flattery (like Trump) as well as respect. Trump's negotiators - Rubio/Waltz/Ratcliffe/Witcoff - are strongly pro Ukrainian negotiators who will be a lot tougher on Russia than Trump's public comments. Russia's negotiators will be in for a big surprise once they get to the table for actual negotiations. Putin's team is being sandbagged.

Trump doesn't care about angering the Europeans - he enjoys it. Plus, Trump wants to scare them into pledging even more for Ukraine's defense or security pledges for Ukrainian border security.

Granted, it's unconventional and is causing the diplomatic class of the US and Europe to blow a gasket, but that's how Trump rolls. Classic Trump Weave.
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Just more bullshit trying to normalize Trump’s radical instability.
 
Callatoroy said:
Well hell rodo, I agree. If only obama had led that coalition the first time. And if only joe, or really jill had led that coalition the 2nd time maybe we wouldn't be here today but we are and the situation is what it is. Now the goal is to end the war, which the free world wants and to provide some security for ukraine and to recoup our loan. Standing up for what's right was the play in 2014. Your post is only 11 years to late and your anger regarding peace negotiations is grossly misplaced.
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I'm not here claiming Obama or Biden or Trump 1.0 or anyone else did everything right with respect to Ukraine. We're talking about what the right thing to do right now is. And siding with Putin and badmouthing our allies to ty to strongarm them into a treaty on Russia's terms is not the right thing to do. Whatever other criticism you want to make of Obama and Biden, at least they knew which side in this conflict is the freaking bad guys. Our President is out there fondling Putin's nutsack and working against the interests of our own allies to appease the antagonist and aggressor who invaded its neighbor on the flimsiest of pretexts. I find it hard to believe that you seriously think Trump's current posture is either morally right or strategically right.
 
Ramrouser said:
Trump's negotiators - Rubio/Waltz/Ratcliffe/Witcoff - are strongly pro Ukrainian negotiators who will be a lot tougher on Russia than Trump's public comments. Russia's negotiators will be in for a big surprise once they get to the table for actual negotiations. Putin's team is being sandbagged.
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LOL if you really believe this I have some beachfront property in Iowa to sell you.
 
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