Russia - US “Ukraine peace negotiations”

Ramrouser said:
They can’t even take more than a sliver of Ukraine with their crappy military so what makes you think they’re going to suddenly go 1939 German Blitzkrieg and conquer Eastern Europe? What they’re good at is simply winning wars of attrition but they’ve already lost 850k soldiers and a ton of their equipment.
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Ukraine has one of the strongest militaries in Europe. Not sure the Baltics would be as tough.
 
Calheel said:
Ukraine has one of the strongest militaries in Europe. Not sure the Baltics would be as tough.
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How do they magically get to the Baltics when Russia can’t move past Eastern Ukraine? The choice is either continued trench warfare on the Eastern Front or peace which recognizes Russia’s gains.
 
Callatoroy said:
Been saying it since they left Afghanistan. Would take a complete international sanctions effort, including Giina
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www.the-independent.com

The Russian economy is on the brink of collapse and Putin knows it

The Russian ruble has lost over half of its value in a decade and inflation is rampant - with electricity up 250 per cent and interest rates at 21 per cent. As its citizens become increasingly impoverished, the key to peace will be Putin’s finances, says Owen Matthews
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com
 
Callatoroy said:
Anyone ever thinking Russia was going to pull back to original borders and Ukraine joining nato is either not realistic or just wants to use that to further criticize trump. Putin would use battlefield nukes before losing all face or a worldwide sanctions, including China.
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If Putin were to use tactical nukes, there is no way of putting the genie back in the bottle. There is no quicker way to WW3 than for anyone to use nukes. Period.
 
Ramrouser said:
How do they magically get to the Baltics when Russia can’t move past Eastern Ukraine? The choice is either continued trench warfare on the Eastern Front or peace which recognizes Russia’s gains.
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If Trump hands Ukraine to Putin on a silver platter, it frees up Putin to move on to the next target -- this time with a battle-hardened military industrial complex in Russia, one that would have no resistance from the US.
 
Bobfripp said:
www.the-independent.com

The Russian economy is on the brink of collapse and Putin knows it

The Russian ruble has lost over half of its value in a decade and inflation is rampant - with electricity up 250 per cent and interest rates at 21 per cent. As its citizens become increasingly impoverished, the key to peace will be Putin’s finances, says Owen Matthews
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com
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I hear ya Dr. Bob. I have been hearing that for 20 years as well. Its always just around the corner. How long should we continue to fund Ukraine's effort? Until they run out of fighters? Russia can hold out that long. You know as well as I do that putin isn't going home empty handed. The trick will be if trump can keep it at just the territory they now occupy and no nato membership. That would be a win for ukraine and the US and a grumbling tie for russia as they have been exposed.
 
Calheel said:
If Trump hands Ukraine to Putin on a silver platter, it frees up Putin to move on to the next target -- this time with a battle-hardened military industrial complex in Russia, one that would have no resistance from the US.
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Does europe exist anymore other than a place to visit Amalfi or Paris? I mean isn't it time for them to step up? They have a vested interest. Where's margret thatcher when you need her?
 
Callatoroy said:
I hear ya Dr. Bob. I have been hearing that for 20 years as well. Its always just around the corner. How long should we continue to fund Ukraine's effort? Until they run out of fighters? Russia can hold out that long. You know as well as I do that putin isn't going home empty handed. The trick will be if trump can keep it at just the territory they now occupy and no nato membership. That would be a win for ukraine and the US and a grumbling tie for russia as they have been exposed.
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Ukraine is going to have to seek peace, and they don't have the manpower to keep the war going. I agree on that point. Russia is in a tough spot, economy wise, and let's hope Trump recognizes this and puts the pressure on to get concessions from Putin. I'm highly skeptical Trump will do so.
 
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Patb78 said:
If Putin were to use tactical nukes, there is no way of putting the genie back in the bottle. There is no quicker way to WW3 than for anyone to use nukes. Period.
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Agree. Do you think he might do that if he felt he were going to be pushed back to the original border and nato admitted ukraine? That would be total humiliation and then you get the battlefield nukes. A win for the world is they keep what they occupy, no nato, some long term security for ukraine, and we get paid back through rare earths. Zelensky not totally happy but he looks like a hero to the world, putin gets to save face, the US back atop its world leader position, and what is sure to be very upsetting to the zzl, trump wins the nobel peace prize. Mt. Rushmore, here he comes.
 
Bobfripp said:
Ukraine is going to have to seek peace, and they don't have the manpower to keep the war going. I agree on that point. Russia is a tough spot, economy wise, and let's hope Trump recognizes this and puts the pressure on to get concessions from Putin. I'm highly skeptical Trump will do so.
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What concessions? My point is that the land russia currently holds and no nato for ukraine is the new starting line, not a concession. Concessions will come in whatever long term security he can extract from putin. If putin refuses that or feel he is in to strong a position to concede anything then I'm good with trump telling him to go fuck himself, we increase sanctions, and increase aid to ukraine to double what it is now and we strong arm europe to match that.
 
Callatoroy said:
Agree. Do you think he might do that if he felt he were going to be pushed back to the original border and nato admitted ukraine? That would be total humiliation and then you get the battlefield nukes. A win for the world is they keep what they occupy, no nato, some long term security for ukraine, and we get paid back through rare earths. Zelensky not totally happy but he looks like a hero to the world, putin gets to save face, the US back atop its world leader position, and what is sure to be very upsetting to the zzl, trump wins the nobel peace prize. Mt. Rushmore, here he comes.
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No. I believe if even contemplated using nukes he could very probably be removed. Putin got Russia into this mess and I doubt (or hope) there are powers in Russia who would prevent him taking this horrible step. You can’t say, “We are going to use tactical nukes in Ukraine, but that’s all,” and expect that to be the end of it. It doesn’t work that way.
 
Patb78 said:
No. I believe if even contemplated using nukes he could very probably be removed. Putin got Russia into this mess and I doubt (or hope) there are powers in Russia who would prevent him taking this horrible step. You can’t say, “We are going to use tactical nukes in Ukraine, but that’s all,” and expect that to be the end of it. It doesn’t work that way.
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By removed you mean jumping out of a tall building?
 
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