Russia - US | Ukraine “peace negotiations”

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 2K
  • Views: 35K
  • Politics 
Huh? said:
I never knew that Silence Dogood was the favorite pen name of Neville Chamberlain. You learn something every day, I suppose.

If history is any indication, this isn't peace - it's war deferred.
Click to expand...
Yeah can anyone remind me what happened the last time the US tried to stay out of a European conflict involving an autocratic strongman that we didn't think was any of our business? Surely Europe made peace itself and nothing later happened that forced us into a world war.
 
"Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering
massive international consequences. Don't underestimate Donald Trump. In this game of chess, he's 10 moves ahead of
everyone."

Trump believes there are no other options for Zelenskyy. However there are.

(1) (Pick one (EU, India, China) offers concrete security assurance to Ukraine including direct military aid and personnel;
(2) As a reward, Ukraine (possessing 5% of strategic rare earth minerals; hence reason for Russian invasion) offers enough titanium, zirconium, graphite, lithium, nickel, cobalt, copper and other rare earth minerals to last a century;
(3) Understanding that Trump/Vance are 100% cut out of the arrangement.
 
nycfan said:
IMG_5337.jpeg
IMG_5338.jpeg
Click to expand...
From the AP article Trump linked:

“A deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia “is still very, very far away,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said, adding that he expects to keep receiving American support despite his recent fraught relations with U.S. President Donald Trump.

“I think our relationship (with the U.S.) will continue, because it’s more than an occasional relationship,” Zelenskyy said late Sunday, referring to Washington’s support for the past three years of war.

“I believe that Ukraine has a strong enough partnership with the United States of America” to keep aid flowing, he said at a briefing in Ukrainian before leaving London.

Zelenskyy publicly was upbeat despite recent diplomatic upheaval between Western countries that have been helping Ukraine with military hardware and financial aid.

… Europe is suspicious of Trump’s motives and strategy. Friedrich Merz, Germany’s likely next leader after the recent election, said Monday that he didn’t think last Friday’s Oval Office blow-up was spontaneous.


He said that he had watched the scene repeatedly.

“My assessment is that it wasn’t a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but apparently an induced escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office,” Merz said.

He said that he was “somewhat astonished by the mutual tone,” but there has been “a certain continuity to what we are seeing from Washington at the moment” in recent weeks.

“I would advocate for us preparing to have to do a great, great deal more for our own security in the coming years and decades,” he said.

Even so, Merz said that he wanted to keep the trans-Atlantic relationship alive.

“I would also advocate doing everything to keep the Americans in Europe,” he said.“
 
uncgriff said:
www.startribune.com

In a stunning comeback, Russia wins the Cold War

And we helped them do it.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com
Click to expand...
About a decade after the cold war, someone asked Gorbachev who won the cold war. His response was no one. We all lost. Both sides spent a fortune on defense and in the end, we are mostly in the same place, outside of some countries in Eastern Europe. Can you imagine how much better off most countries would have been if we had spent all that money on something other than the military? It was a lost 50 years.

So at some point you have to say enough. Who cares who "wins" the Cold war. Its time for peace and some reprioritization away from the military industrial complex.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
About a decade after the cold war, someone asked Gorbachev who won the cold war. His response was no one. We all lost. Both sides spent a fortune on defense and in the end, we are mostly in the same place, outside of some countries in Eastern Europe. Can you imagine how much better off most countries would have been if we had spent all that money on something other than the military? It was a lost 50 years.

So at some point you have to say enough. Who cares who "wins" the Cold war. Its time for peace and some reprioritization away from the military industrial complex.
Click to expand...
I can totally understand that perspective and think there are certainly elements of truth to it, but ultimately I do personally believe that while we did/have spent a fortune on defense, we've gotten a tremendous ROI over the lasts several decades as the world's economic, cultural, and soft power leader. My fear is that we are in the process of squandering all of that and then some.
 
Lando said:
Let's say Europe rallies and we aren't needed for muscle going forward. Do we close down bases? Are we forced to close down bases? What happens to our ability to project power? Do we wake up one day and realize our military looks like Russia's current mess?
Click to expand...

All reasonable questions. Messes that will be left for future administrations to clean up. Assuming we have elections moving forward.
 
CFordUNC said:
I can totally understand that perspective and think there are certainly elements of truth to it, but ultimately I do personally believe that while we did/have spent a fortune on defense, we've gotten a tremendous ROI over the lasts several decades as the world's economic, cultural, and soft power leader. My fear is that we are in the process of squandering all of that and then some.
Click to expand...
I certainly agree we did get some positives but if I could just compare it to what we could have had... Medicare for all, more infrastructure, government paid for college. It was just so much money.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
About a decade after the cold war, someone asked Gorbachev who won the cold war. His response was no one. We all lost. Both sides spent a fortune on defense and in the end, we are mostly in the same place, outside of some countries in Eastern Europe. Can you imagine how much better off most countries would have been if we had spent all that money on something other than the military? It was a lost 50 years.

So at some point you have to say enough. Who cares who "wins" the Cold war. Its time for peace and some reprioritization away from the military industrial complex.
Click to expand...
This is an insanely naive take when one side is led by one of the greatest warmongers in world history.

Chamberlain, that you?
 
rodoheel said:
Yeah can anyone remind me what happened the last time the US tried to stay out of a European conflict involving an autocratic strongman that we didn't think was any of our business? Surely Europe made peace itself and nothing later happened that forced us into a world war.
Click to expand...
churchill spent years imploring, essentially doing the diplomatic version of begging, the US to enter the war. the splendid and the vile by erik larson is a fun read i recently finished about this time period.

the brits certainly didn't want a bunch of americans to get slaughtered at pearl harbor but they were pretty relieved when it happened.
 
Last edited:
gtyellowjacket said:
So at some point you have to say enough. Who cares who "wins" the Cold war. Its time for peace and some reprioritization away from the military industrial complex.
Click to expand...
And I suppose the Soviet Union would have fallen on its own if we said early on "who cares who wins the cold war"?

I rather doubt in the end we would have saved all that money should it not have fallen on its own.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top