Russia - US | Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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BlooVooDoo said:
What exactly does Ukraine get out of this deal if there are no security guarantees?
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Why do you think there is no security? Guarantee basically means informal nato membership except without Europe. That is unreasonable for Zel to expect that. What does Ukraine get?
1. Security from our presence in ukraine
2. The resources to extract the minerals that they can’t get to now
3. Economic partnership that will far outlast trump
4. Not losing more territory than they already have
5. The winner as viewed by the rest of the world.

Kind of the best possible outcome given that nato membership and Russia pulling back to original borders is not a possibility for ending the war
 
BlooVooDoo said:
My daughter has plans to go to Europe this summer. I’m starting to think it might not be safe for Americans in the coming months.
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Does emotion dictate everything with you guys. Lol at wondering if safe to travel to Europe. Europe is likely safer than being in the US
 
Callatoroy said:
Why do you think there is no security? Guarantee basically means informal nato membership except without Europe. That is unreasonable for Zel to expect that. What does Ukraine get?
1. Security from our presence in ukraine
2. The resources to extract the minerals that they can’t get to now
3. Economic partnership that will far outlast trump
4. Not losing more territory than they already have
5. The winner as viewed by the rest of the world.

Kind of the best possible outcome given that nato membership and Russia pulling back to original borders is not a possibility for ending the war
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Without further military aid or US/NATO boots in Ukraine, why would Putin stop short of his goal? No American companies are going to go there, build infrastructure and extract valuable resources without full confidence Putin won’t kill or kidnap them, steal equipment or the mined minerals.
 
Callatoroy said:
I think the left should start another Russian investigation. Adam Shiff would be a good choice to lead that investigation.
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Why bother Dems could find solid proof Trump was screwing dead children in front of their parents and you MAGAts would say they deserved it. There is no crime he can commit you won’t defend.
 
ZenMode said:
Yes.... yes it did.

As set forth in detail in this repo1t, the Special Counsel's investigation established thatRussia interfere~ in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, aRussian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J.Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Second, a Russian intelligenceservice conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents. The investigation also identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.
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They don’t care about that last comment but will claim they are driven by facts.
 
MOUNTAINH33L said:
Yeah I'm a bit skeptical of the sources too, but I'll be completely honest here. I want it to be true because I feel like it is.
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Totally sympathetic to that notion. But I also think it's unlikely. We've had defectors come over. We've had some pretty deep electronic intelligence including stuff that we certainly don't know about. I think Obama and Biden would have released the information and should have released the information if there was solid stuff.

Three people that claim to be ex-kgb agents making claims without hard evidence doesn't really meet the extraordinary proof required for extraordinary claims threshold. Especially since there's a real case to be made that impugning Trump further exploits America's divisions and helps Russia.
 
HandsonFire said:
Why bother Dems could find solid proof Trump was screwing dead children in front of their parents and you MAGAts would say they deserved it. There is no crime he can commit you won’t defend.
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And there is no trump rumor you won’t convince yourselves isn’t true
 
CFordUNC said:
Cannot believe some tubby effeminate loser who wears eyeliner and makeup is lecturing anyone in Europe about anything.
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The guy was a marine. Or at least he took pictures and kept the group’s diary up to date and the biggest risks he faced were paper cuts and broken nails, but still. You’d think he’d show a little more respect for people who serve.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Without further military aid or US/NATO boots in Ukraine, why would Putin stop short of his goal? No American companies are going to go there, build infrastructure and extract valuable resources without full confidence Putin won’t kill or kidnap them, steal equipment or the mined minerals.
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And Putin isn’t going to attack us companies that the US G’ment will protect.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Lols. Those are some sources. I was a little skeptical but its the Kyiv Post and Hindustan times. Absolutely ironclad.
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I'll agree, those two are dodgy. But there are several others. How about The Hill.com? It usually receives good ratings for truth, accuracy and middle of the road media bias. The "fact" is, the two former KGB did make the claims. After Mussayev made his claim, another ex-KGB officer living in France, Sergei Zhyrnov came out to corroborate. Are their claims true? Perhaps. But the FACT is, they did make the claims.

Call out the two former KGBers as liars if you will, but you can't question the fact that they did indeed say what they said.
 
Born in 1959, I recall the Cold War. I remember videos of Nikita Khrushchev saying "we will bury you". That video was re-played over and over again in the 1960's. I vaguely recall hiding under my desk in kindergarten during a "nuclear attack" drill. I recall houses and homes that were built in the late 1950's and early 1960's with bomb shelters. I was brought up under the threat of the Cuban Missile Crisis. I remember all too well Walter Cronkite on CBS news and stories of the KGB, the USSR, the Cold War... Russia was (and still is) our enemy. I remember seeing George C. Scott in the movie "Patton" in 1970 and I recall his famous line: "We may have been fighting the wrong enemy all along. But while we're here (on the Soviet border), we should go after the bastards..."
My father, may he rest in peace, was in the U.S. Army during the Korean War. He served Stateside and never saw combat, but never-the-less he was in the military while the U.S. was at war with North Korea.
And now, the U.S. Government just voted at the United Nations against a U.N. resolution - along with Russia and... North Korea? Really? We are now part of the "Axis of Evil" - a term another Republican President once coined.
So now, 65 years after I was born, we've come full circle. Russia and North Korea are no longer enemies. They are our friends. Our Cohorts. Our Comrades. Really, America???
My father is surely rolling over in his grave.
I say Fuck Trump! And Fuck all those who voted for him. I know for a fact my father didn't vote for the grifter. My dad was life-long Republican, but in his last days, he admitted to me that he had voted for Obama - twice. And he told me he didn't vote for Trump in 2016. I'm 100% sure he didn't vote for Trump in 2020. One month after the election, my father passed away. Thankfully, Biden won. Thankfully, my father didn't live to see the debacle on Jan 6, 2021.
My father didn't cuss like I do... (sorry, I spent too much time in Europe around Brits, Scots, Dutchies and Irishmen). However I believe if he were still with us, he would join me and Robert DeNiro at the Tony Awards: Fuck Trump!
 
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