Russia - US | Ukraine “peace negotiations”

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Centerpiece said:
I'll agree, those two are dodgy. But there are several others. How about The Hill.com? It usually receives good ratings for truth, accuracy and middle of the road media bias. The "fact" is, the two former KGB did make the claims. After Mussayev made his claim, another ex-KGB officer living in France, Sergei Zhyrnov came out to corroborate. Are their claims true? Perhaps. But the FACT is, they did make the claims.

Call out the two former KGBers as liars if you will, but you can't question the fact that they did indeed say what they said.
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Completely agree. But I think the fact that you're not seeing an explosive claim at A1 of the New York Times speaks to the credibility or at least the ability to corroborate the claims.
 
Callatoroy said:
Why do you think there is no security? Guarantee basically means informal nato membership except without Europe. That is unreasonable for Zel to expect that. What does Ukraine get?
1. Security from our presence in ukraine
2. The resources to extract the minerals that they can’t get to now
3. Economic partnership that will far outlast trump
4. Not losing more territory than they already have
5. The winner as viewed by the rest of the world.

Kind of the best possible outcome given that nato membership and Russia pulling back to original borders is not a possibility for ending the war
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How can you type any of that and live with knowing what a brainwashed sad coward you are.
 
Callatoroy said:
And Putin isn’t going to attack us companies that the US G’ment will protect.
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That definitely worked in February 2022.

www.forbes.com

Anticipated Russian Invasion Creates Crisis For U.S. Companies In Ukraine

The anticipated invasion of Ukraine by Russia has created a crisis for U.S. companies with offices or employees in that country. Protecting their staff and assets — or moving them out of Ukraine as soon as possible — has become a top priority for business leaders.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
lawtig02 said:
That definitely worked in February 2022.

www.forbes.com

Anticipated Russian Invasion Creates Crisis For U.S. Companies In Ukraine

The anticipated invasion of Ukraine by Russia has created a crisis for U.S. companies with offices or employees in that country. Protecting their staff and assets — or moving them out of Ukraine as soon as possible — has become a top priority for business leaders.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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Legitimately becoming impressed at the manner in which quite literally everything calla says on this board is proven to have been the exact opposite happen in reality. That actually takes some skill and talent to be that hilariously wrong that frequently.
 
Ramrouser said:
For Z’s disrespectful conduct (interrupting the POTUS, eye rolling, calling JD a “bitch”, no thank you, and failure to wear a suit when specifically asked to do so). He also needs to apologize for listening to Murphy and taking his advice.
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How do we know he was asked to? You going to believe the White House? And if true, that's rather odd that Trump didn't ask the Indian Prime Minister to wear a suit or at least a tie in the Oval with Trump and Musk.

Now you could say suit and ties are not Indian dress. But I rather doubt in the middle of a war with bombardment, running to air raid shelters and all that, that anyone in Ukraine is much wearing a suit and tie. Wearing a uniform is standard practice in war time. And powerful world symbol to boot. For any world leader involved in a war to go outside his country wearing formal wear would promote the message that their war really isn't serious.

There's a serious double standard going on with your argument.
 
lawtig02 said:
I’ll acknowledge that comment. Will you acknowledge the truth of all the statements that precede it?
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it is hilarious that they think it's some sort of gotcha that the mueller investigation determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that russia interfered with the election in trump's favor but that his campaign was likely too stupid to understand exactly what was going on.

i guess they roll with being proud of that when the alternative is collusion, treason, espionage, etc.
 
BlueSmoke said:
How do we know he was asked to? You going to believe the White House? And if true, that's rather odd that Trump didn't ask the Indian Prime Minister to wear a suit or at least a tie in the Oval with Trump and Musk.

Now you could say suit and ties are not Indian dress. But I rather doubt in the middle of a war with bombardment, running to air raid shelters and all that, that anyone in Ukraine is much wearing a suit and tie. Wearing a uniform is standard practice in war time. And powerful world symbol to boot. For any world leader involved in a war to go outside his country wearing formal wear would promote the message that their war really isn't serious.

There's a serious double standard going on with your argument.
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the arguments about zelenskyy's attire/appearance are so unbelievably bad faith horseshit that we should stop even acknowledging or responding to them, honestly.
 
4thgenheel said:
it is hilarious that they think it's some sort of gotcha that the mueller investigation determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that russia interfered with the election in trump's favor but that his campaign was likely too stupid to understand exactly what was going on.

i guess they roll with being proud of that when the alternative is collusion, treason, espionage, etc.
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Nope. The campaign knew what was going on and that they'd benefit from what was going on, they just didn't conspire or coordinate with the Russians.

As set forth in detail in this report, the Special Counsel's investigation established that Russia interfere~ in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J.Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents. The investigation also identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

Honest question...has anyone on this forum actually read Volume 1 of the Mueller Report?
 
ZenMode said:
Nope. The campaign knew what was going on and that they'd benefit from what was going on, they just didn't conspire or coordinate with the Russians.

As set forth in detail in this report, the Special Counsel's investigation established that Russia interfere~ in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J.Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents. The investigation also identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

Honest question...has anyone on this forum actually read Volume 1 of the Mueller Report?
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oh wow, man.

that changes everything!!!!

i'll repeat: there is no "gotcha" for trump supporters regarding this situation.
 
Ramrouser said:
Z just completely surrendered to Trump via tweet.
Smart move on Ukraine’s part.
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That tweet is not nearly enough groveling for Trump. Z saying:

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

That is not an apology. At least not one that should move the needle for Trump. That is essentially Z blaming Trump for the issue without directly saying that.
 
CFordUNC said:
Legitimately becoming impressed at the manner in which quite literally everything calla says on this board is proven to have been the exact opposite happen in reality. That actually takes some skill and talent to be that hilariously wrong that frequently.
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Not really, you just have to get all of your information from the rightwing propaganda networks and then regurgitate it on here.
 
ZenMode said:
Nope. The campaign knew what was going on and that they'd benefit from what was going on, they just didn't conspire or coordinate with the Russians.

As set forth in detail in this report, the Special Counsel's investigation established that Russia interfere~ in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J.Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents. The investigation also identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

Honest question...has anyone on this forum actually read Volume 1 of the Mueller Report?
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In short, the Trump Campaign only worked with the Russians at the 30k foot level to illegally meddle in a US presidential election and not at the detail level that leaves individuals guilty of crimes.

Now...imagine thinking that's a defense of Trump and his campaign.
 
SnoopRob said:
In short, the Trump Campaign only worked with the Russians at the 30k foot level to illegally meddle in a US presidential election and not at the detail level that leaves individuals guilty of crimes.

Now...imagine thinking that's a defense of Trump and his campaign.
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If they worked with them, that would be conspiracy. The campaign knew what Russia was doing and that they'd benefit from it, but there was no 'worked with'.
 
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