Ryder Cup 2025

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As I mentioned in an earlier post, we are usually good on Sundays, but losing only one match out of 12 is crazy.

I would be interested to see the comparison Euro v USA in total putts over the three days . My guess is Euro had many fewer putts which may have determined the Euro victory.
 
heelinhell said:
As I mentioned in an earlier post, we are usually good on Sundays, but losing only one match out of 12 is crazy.

I would be interested to see the comparison Euro v USA in total putts over the three days . My guess is Euro had many fewer putts which may have determined the Euro victory.
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Playing without much pressure helped the US on Sunday.
 
heelinhell said:
As I mentioned in an earlier post, we are usually good on Sundays, but losing only one match out of 12 is crazy.

I would be interested to see the comparison Euro v USA in total putts over the three days . My guess is Euro had many fewer putts which may have determined the Euro victory.
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strokes gained data from the ryder cup was crazy. I think US gained 7 more strokes t2g and Europe was +8 putting. I know going into sunday 9 of the top 10 putters were Euros
 
1moretimeagain said:
IMO their video is clearly something Donald Trump would like, never mind tolerate.
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Exactly. They’re part of the cool-kids table in the lunchroom in his eyes, and his whole life has been built around desperately wanting and needing a seat at that table. If he actually believes these golfers are his friends, that’s a win for him. Validation.

His tiny little brain is so easy to dissect.
 
Bigs23 said:
Playing without much pressure helped the US on Sunday.
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I had not considered that, but that may be the case. I also think the Sunday mentality for USA players has been that I am just playing for myself and don't have to figure out how to mesh with those Friday/Saturday teammates.
 
heelinhell said:
I had not considered that, but that may be the case. I also think the Sunday mentality for USA players has been that I am just playing for myself and don't have to figure out how to mesh with those Friday/Saturday teammates.
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Yeah, I’m sure both played a part.
 
BlueSteel said:
All that global respect we're getting because of Trump, right Callarouser?
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Callarouser doesn't care if we have global respect. We lost that during Trump 1.0. Although Biden restored our respect as the leader of the free world, Callarouser didn't care about Biden's ability to return us to being the leader of the free world in less than 4 years.

I'm guessing Callarouser would prefer our country being feared instead of being respected.
 
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BTW - in terms of a USA post-mortem, I think any criticism over particular plyer pairings is likely overblown. It's an inexact science at best in trying to figure out who pairs well together, especially in the foursomes forma where you alternate shots. (I still think it was an odd decision to send Morikawa and Harris English back out in that format for a second day after being pretty bad the first day). I do think Bradley mad a very odd tactical decision that clearly backfired in deciding to set up Bethpage Black so easily, with wider fairways and shorter rough. The result was an easy course and a birdie-fest, when I think a lot of the longer hitters on the US team would have had a better advantage with a more difficult course. Also, I didn't realize this before, but apparently Bradley made the decision to start with the alternate-shot foursomes (a format the US has longer struggled with) over four-ball each morning, which also seems like a clear mistake.
 
rodoheel said:
BTW - in terms of a USA post-mortem, I think any criticism over particular plyer pairings is likely overblown. It's an inexact science at best in trying to figure out who pairs well together, especially in the foursomes forma where you alternate shots. (I still think it was an odd decision to send Morikawa and Harris English back out in that format for a second day after being pretty bad the first day). I do think Bradley mad a very odd tactical decision that clearly backfired in deciding to set up Bethpage Black so easily, with wider fairways and shorter rough. The result was an easy course and a birdie-fest, when I think a lot of the longer hitters on the US team would have had a better advantage with a more difficult course. Also, I didn't realize this before, but apparently Bradley made the decision to start with the alternate-shot foursomes (a format the US has longer struggled with) over four-ball each morning, which also seems like a clear mistake.
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I think pairings matter a lot. There is statistical data that supports certain players playing well together. Europe, apparently, uses a lot of this data. They take individual skill sets and course makeup into consideration.

Further to this is it seems Europe has a clear plan for their pairings. They look at the psychological and emotional fits. For example, they really look at who rookies are paired with so the rookies can sort of be guided and not be overwhelmed. It was an advantage that Europe only had one rookie this year. However, did the US team help the rookies the best they could? Was BDC really a good person to pair with Ben Griffin? Maybe the US did look into all of that and we can criticize it in hindsight. My feeling is, though, that Europe puts much more emphasis on how players are paired.
 
LeoBloom said:
I think pairings matter a lot. There is statistical data that supports certain players playing well together. Europe, apparently, uses a lot of this data. They take individual skill sets and course makeup into consideration.

Further to this is it seems Europe has a clear plan for their pairings. They look at the psychological and emotional fits. For example, they really look at who rookies are paired with so the rookies can sort of be guided and not be overwhelmed. It was an advantage that Europe only had one rookie this year. However, did the US team help the rookies the best they could? Was BDC really a good person to pair with Ben Griffin? Maybe the US did look into all of that and we can criticize it in hindsight. My feeling is, though, that Europe puts much more emphasis on how players are paired.
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What data is there about players playing well together? Like, data about which playstyles or tendencies tend to work well together? I'd be interested to know what's out there but I suspect there will be sample size concerns given how rarely any given player participates in this sort of team event.

I find it easier to believe that you should focus on *emotional* compatibility (which I agree Europe does seem to do a better job of) than there being any real sort of data-driven answer about, like, whose games complement each other. The USA can and should do a better job pairing guys who get along well together. Part of the problem, IMO, is that the current American player pool is mostly a lot of quiet, uptight loners who don't really seem to play well with others, versus just focusing on their own games and heads. Which is great for winning individual golf tournaments - and as we saw on Sunday maybe great for individual match play - but not so much for a team event. I'm not really sure how you fix that.
 
rodoheel said:
What data is there about players playing well together? Like, data about which playstyles or tendencies tend to work well together? I'd be interested to know what's out there but I suspect there will be sample size concerns given how rarely any given player participates in this sort of team event.

I find it easier to believe that you should focus on *emotional* compatibility (which I agree Europe does seem to do a better job of) than there being any real sort of data-driven answer about, like, whose games complement each other. The USA can and should do a better job pairing guys who get along well together. Part of the problem, IMO, is that the current American player pool is mostly a lot of quiet, uptight loners who don't really seem to play well with others, versus just focusing on their own games and heads. Which is great for winning individual golf tournaments - and as we saw on Sunday maybe great for individual match play - but not so much for a team event. I'm not really sure how you fix that.
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There’s a ton of data out there. Hell, if keegan would have just used something as easy as Data golf, the US would have been better served. Europe has Dodo Molinari, who does data for multiple of their players year round and buy-in from Luke Donald and really any of their captains. There’s a zero percent chance they’d do something as dumb as the English-morikawa pairing on a bombers track or have Russell Henley tee off the odd holes when paired with Scottie when distance was a huge advantage on the odd holes.
This stuff gets super granular. Europe had essentially the same team as last time, but they didn’t use the same 4some pairings as last time bc 1. trotting Shane and Sepp out their this time would been about as dumb as Harris/morikawa and 2) they broke up Lud/Hov mostly because Hov hasn’t been driving it as well the last 6 months or so and Fitz/Bob mac had taken a significant step up in play since 2023.

It’s not all Keegan’s fault obviously, but he certainly didn’t do himself any favors
 
heelinhell said:
I had not considered that, but that may be the case. I also think the Sunday mentality for USA players has been that I am just playing for myself and don't have to figure out how to mesh with those Friday/Saturday teammates.
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Totally agree. Europe has figured out how to play with that freedom on Friday and Saturday. They embrace the underdog role. Perhaps Americans would do well to embrace the one country vs. one continent concept. Kudos to the us fur the Sunday rally
 
uncjhodges said:
There’s a ton of data out there. Hell, if keegan would have just used something as easy as Data golf, the US would have been better served. Europe has Dodo Molinari, who does data for multiple of their players year round and buy-in from Luke Donald and really any of their captains. There’s a zero percent chance they’d do something as dumb as the English-morikawa pairing on a bombers track or have Russell Henley tee off the odd holes when paired with Scottie when distance was a huge advantage on the odd holes.
This stuff gets super granular. Europe had essentially the same team as last time, but they didn’t use the same 4some pairings as last time bc 1. trotting Shane and Sepp out their this time would been about as dumb as Harris/morikawa and 2) they broke up Lud/Hov mostly because Hov hasn’t been driving it as well the last 6 months or so and Fitz/Bob mac had taken a significant step up in play since 2023.

It’s not all Keegan’s fault obviously, but he certainly didn’t do himself any favors
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Exactly. There is a lot of data out there. It can be about how someone's iron play on approach shots fits with someone else's driving off the tee. It can factor in the course to see who should tee off on the even number of holes and the odd number of holes.

It is not always based on their having played together, it is based on what they do very well. Is the course setup for bombers off the tee? Is driving accuracy a premium? What does the data say about a player hitting out of the rough? Maybe pair them who is less accurate off the tee, etc.

There are tons of ways to use the data. Europe has embraced that completely.
 
Another point: it seems Europe's players clearly know their role going into each Ryder Cup. They know there can be some variation as the unexpected can arise, but they know who they are going to be teamed with, know what they need to focus on based on their pairings.

In short, they seem to have a clear plan early in the lead up to the event. The US? They selected a guy to be captain who is a current (very good) player who is also focusing on his playing career.

I, obviously, do not know what is going on behind the scenes, but Europe seems to have a more clear plan.
 
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