Should Harris have continued with her more Populist messaging?

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Duke Mu

Duke Mu

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Honest question and perhaps it should have its own thread.

Harris and Walz began their campaign with a more populist message that included focusing on Working class issues with cross-over to Berni Sanders 2016 campaign. Although I disagree with a significant amount of Bernie's policies, I believe he would have won the 2016 election.

After the debate Trump and poll momentum, I felt like Jen O'Malley and donor class forces pushed a more careful, middle of the road campaign, even reaching out to Cheney and Nikki Republicans. Although I thought building a coalition was the right call, the campaign lost its mojo, especially heading into the hurricane chaos where I believe the candidates needed to be on site and assisting without getting in the way.

The voting data suggest a lack of traction with working class, whites and POC who would have been attracted to a Populist Campaign.

With Trump's dark rhetoric did it make a difference? Was it the lack of a penis since birth and too much melanin in her skin? Or did largely abandoning the populist campaign cook the Democrat campaign's goose?
 
At first I was unsure, but now I tend to think so. Trying to draw in moderate Republicans was a huge mistake. I think we all thought she'd scrape a few percentage points off of Trump with classic R's which would lead to a win, but I don't she even got 1/8 of that.

She was unable to turn out low propensity voters where Trump was able to.
 
The time period of the campaign where Harris was campaigning in at least a semi-progressive way was also her high watermark in the polls.

Think we can safely say the post-convention strategy was a disaster. Harris would not be the best messenger for a progressive populism, but she could’ve made the care economy central to her campaign and rather than focusing on suburban Republicans.

Making Medicare for All the centerpiece of her campaign would’ve been powerful, IMO.
 
Probably? But honestly, I think the outcome would be the same and she would be getting criticized for not offering enough of a policy contrast with Trump.

I think the real answer is regardless of what message she had, this outcome was pretty well baked. Some people reconsidered briefly after the debate, but just as it did in 2016, his debate performance faded pretty quickly.
 
nycfan said:
Probably? But honestly, I think the outcome would be the same and she would be getting criticized for not offering enough of a policy contrast with Trump.

I think the real answer is regardless of what message she had, this outcome was pretty well baked. Some people reconsidered briefly after the debate, but just as it did in 2016, his debate performance faded pretty quickly.
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In which he danced on stage to music for 39 minutes and this was just fine for everyone.
 
nycfan said:
Probably? But honestly, I think the outcome would be the same and she would be getting criticized for not offering enough of a policy contrast with Trump.

I think the real answer is regardless of what message she had, this outcome was pretty well baked. Some people reconsidered briefly after the debate, but just as it did in 2016, his debate performance faded pretty quickly.
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I think not offering enough of policy contrast with Trump was a part of the issue with the campaign.

Why capitulate completely to the right-wing talking points on crime, immigration, etc?

If Democrats are saying the border is a disaster then why wouldn’t voters vote for Trump?
 
nycfan said:
Probably? But honestly, I think the outcome would be the same and she would be getting criticized for not offering enough of a policy contrast with Trump.

I think the real answer is regardless of what message she had, this outcome was pretty well baked. Some people reconsidered briefly after the debate, but just as it did in 2016, his debate performance faded pretty quickly.
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honestly I think you are right about the results being pre-determined. I mean the Trump campaign did seemingly everything wrong at the end and it didn't seem to matter. i don't know how Harris doing every single thing right would have moved the needle. The latter being impossible because there was no way to make everyone in the attempted coalition happy.
 
The republican outreach thing failed miserably. Absolutely failed.

And they failed in understanding that younger black and brown men think that racism is either of the past or is not something inherent to the GOP (it is).

But once Biden decided to run again, I think the ship sailed. I dont think, in retrospect, anything could have been done.

Abortion? People are ok to try to vote to protect their own state and screw the rest. And apparently women didnt come out like hoped. And men just suck.
 
altmin said:
honestly I think you are right about the results being pre-determined. I mean the Trump campaign did seemingly everything wrong at the end and it didn't seem to matter. i don't know how Harris doing every single thing right would have moved the needle. The latter being impossible because there was no way to make everyone in the attempted coalition happy.
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I think a significant, though perhaps not decisive, part of the vote was baked in due to perceptions about Biden and his leadership.

That’s why Harris should’ve focused on turning out low-propensity Dem leaners and working class people by campaigning on big social programs that would put a dent in people’s cost of living. This would’ve allowed her to better contrast the differences between herself and Biden.

You also have to address people’s concerns about immigration and crime through this economic lens rather than buying into Trump’s framing of the issues.

Would Harris really have lost any of the voters who ended up pulling the lever for her last night if she had run this kind of campaign? I don’t think so, but reasonable people can disagree on it.
 
Icky Mettle said:
That’s a very good point.
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And also inflation, as ironically the populist leaning in the corporate greed angle could have had traction...but then Harris is part of the administration with inflation on their watch...even though Trump's tariffs, QE, budget deficits set the stage.

I would agree that in retrospect reaching out to never or not any more Trumpers as a coalition was a failure. I believe that this was the Donor Class recommendation. It's also fair that without full primary vetting the Biden albatross (right or wrong) hung around Harris neck. We won't know whether expanding the populist message to Young Turk level would have worked...especially if not articulated by a 2016 Bernie.

Now there are likely to be deep budget cuts that ironically will target the poor, working class, and elderly.
 
I think it’s pretty clear a bunch of republicans and republican leaning independents lied to pollsters and the Harris campaign data people. This led to a misguided outreach and focus
 
Paine said:
I think a significant, though perhaps not decisive, part of the vote was baked in due to perceptions about Biden and his leadership.

That’s why Harris should’ve focused on turning out low-propensity Dem leaners and working class people by campaigning on big social programs that would put a dent in people’s cost of living. This would’ve allowed her to better contrast the differences between herself and Biden.

You also have to address people’s concerns about immigration and crime through this economic lens rather than buying into Trump’s framing of the issues.

Would Harris really have lost any of the voters who ended up pulling the lever for her last night if she had run this kind of campaign? I don’t think so, but reasonable people can disagree on it.
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I think we might be facing the same result but instead people shitting on the campaign for catering to the left.

I can't 100% say that would happen, but if I were a gambler I'd probably put money on it happening in that reality.

No one can win the what if game and I personally would have loved the leftward lunge, but I am not sure it would have mattered. I have a latino friend who is probably around your age, and is a liberal voter in Arizona who works at walmart. He didn't go to college, but doesn't trust the right and the moneyed class etc. he is angry as hell because he felt the Biden admin didn't do anything they promised. I can try to argue obstruction and filibusters and all stuff that exists, but he doesn't care. To his credit he did vote for Harris, but doesn't want to take the time to understand the cause of what he sees as a betrayal. It's not hard to see someone in his case 9 out of 10 times just not vote. I mean this is not a perfect analogy as he did vote for Harris, but outreach may not be enough in the case of people too angry at the lack of results. I would have liked to see it happen, but I just not sure it would have been welcome.

Anyway this is all just monday morning quarterbacking. I think if it was easy to do, this conversation wouldn't be happening.
 
uncjhodges said:
I think it’s pretty clear a bunch of republicans and republican leaning independents lied to pollsters and the Harris campaign data people. This led to a misguided outreach and focus
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I'm telling you, I guarantee there's Republicans that endorsed her that didn't end up voting for her.

It was a pretty big mistake to try to get those folks, even though it sounded solid and safe at the time.
 
altmin said:
I think we might be facing the same result but instead people shitting on the campaign for catering to the left.

I can't 100% say that would happen, but if I were a gambler I'd probably put money on it happening in that reality.

No one can win the what if game and I personally would have loved the leftward lunge, but I am not sure it would have mattered. I have a latino friend who is probably around your age, and is a liberal voter in Arizona who works at walmart. He didn't go to college, but doesn't trust the right and the moneyed class etc. he is angry as hell because he felt the Biden admin didn't do anything they promised. I can try to argue obstruction and filibusters and all stuff that exists, but he doesn't care. To his credit he did vote for Harris, but doesn't want to take the time to understand the cause of what he sees as a betrayal. It's not hard to see someone in his case 9 out of 10 times just not vote. I mean this is not a perfect analogy as he did vote for Harris, but outreach may not be enough in the case of people too angry at the lack of results. I would have liked to see it happen, but I just not sure it would have been welcome.

Anyway this is all just monday morning quarterbacking. I think if it was easy to do, this conversation wouldn't be happening.
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Not saying it would’ve been easy, just wish the Democratic Party would for once name who the enemy is like they used to. We need to get the party back to a point where they welcome the hatred of billionaires and elites rather than catering to them.
 
Duke Mu said:
Honest question and perhaps it should have its own thread.

Harris and Walz began their campaign with a more populist message that included focusing on Working class issues with cross-over to Berni Sanders 2016 campaign. Although I disagree with a significant amount of Bernie's policies, I believe he would have won the 2016 election.

After the debate Trump and poll momentum, I felt like Jen O'Malley and donor class forces pushed a more careful, middle of the road campaign, even reaching out to Cheney and Nikki Republicans. Although I thought building a coalition was the right call, the campaign lost its mojo, especially heading into the hurricane chaos where I believe the candidates needed to be on site and assisting without getting in the way.

The voting data suggest a lack of traction with working class, whites and POC who would have been attracted to a Populist Campaign.

With Trump's dark rhetoric did it make a difference? Was it the lack of a penis since birth and too much melanin in her skin? Or did largely abandoning the populist campaign cook the Democrat campaign's goose?
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"Was it the lack of a penis since birth and too much melanin in her skin? Or did largely abandoning the populist campaign cook the Democrat campaign's goose?"

The first part, more than the latter.

Female person of color did her in. I don't think it was courting Cheney/Nikki voters and not courting Bernie voters that did it.

At the end of the day, it's still baffling how Obama got elected TWICE. The only thing I can see is because he's male. That and because McCain chose Palin as VP in 2008. I'm really not sure how Romney lost in 2012 to be honest.

But it's the female thing for the most part... add in the POC aspect and presto
 
Hindsight 20/20 but I do think more economic policy would have helped. She tried with housing grants for first time home buyers and doubling down on Biden's student loan relief but I don't think giveaways is the right course. People that don't get the giveaways tend to vote against it.

I think something along the lines of strengthening worker rights and unions might have been a better economic message.

I also think she should have hammered Trump's threats to democracy. More videos of January 6th violence and Trump talking about ending voting would have been nice. She definitely had the money to spend on those types of ads. Fear works. I'm sure they focus grouped it and there was a reason it wasn't more prevalent such as firing up a republican base but it just seems to me like that could have been a bigger issue if you were hoping to get crossover Republicans.

Ultimately the economy along with a pretty middling candidate doomed us. A great candidate who was a better communicator might have been able to overcome some of the economic issues, especially with Trump as a candidate, but that wasn't Harris. Might not have mattered.
 
Democrats have lost the populist message. They are a part of elites that are out of touch with working America.

I hope we get back to the basics next cycle.
 
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