Small annoyances, cultural edition

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1. The skiff barge scene in Return of the Jedi. Jabba's goons try to push Luke into the hungry pit, but Luke uses the plank as a diving board, somersaults over the guards, catches the light saber R2 ejected . . . and before Luke catches the light saber, he has to wait 3 full seconds for it to come down. There were guards all around. He could have been shot, stabbed, whacked -- I mean, standing vertically with your hand reaching for the sky is not a good fighting position. And they only had months or years to get the timing right.

Seriously, though, this has a major deleterious effect on the scene, in my opinion. The film is trying to kick off an action sequence; apparently the strategy is to escalate the heroics, because the Luke somersault is really underwhelming as a power move from a Jedi. And maybe they could have built it up if they didn't destroy the momentum with Luke pausing for 3 seconds to catch a light saber. I mean, who edited this thing? Did they think it was a good idea?

Overall, the entire encounter completely fails in its cinematic purpose, which is to show that Luke has become more powerful since last we saw him. But really? The somersault was kinda cool I guess but Greg Louganis could have done it and probably better. Yes, he slashes some bumbling fool guards -- guards who make stormtroopers look like elite infantry -- but he also manages to get himself shot (think Kylo Ren lets himself be touched?). To create the illusion of Luke's power, they really need the fight scene to look impressive. Standing for 3 seconds waiting for a mistimed light saber is not it.

2. What'cha Want by the Beastie Boys. First lyric: "So just plug me in just like I was Eddie Harris."

That "just" qualifier should not be repeated. They are obviously three syllables too short in this line -- hence the need for "so" "just" and "just." Ugh. It sounds stupid. And who the fuck is Eddie Harris, and why would you want to be plugged in like him? Apparently a saxophonist who recorded an LP called "Plug me in," which is not a reference that anyone would ever get. The song was successful but this first line is a disaster all the way through.

3. Maybe the worst lyric of all time. This song is an absolute banger (and yes, it was used in that Nike ad, which I think is one of the best ads I've ever seen from a technical/artistic standpoint) and then comes the minute at 1:46 when it all comes crashing down.



"Ecstacy, suffering, echinacea, bufferin
We aim to remember what we choose to forget
God's just a baby and her diaper is wet"

That last line in the triplet there. Ugh. The whole song just falls flat after that. It's still worth a listen but man if someone could just expunge that horrible 10th-rate-poetry-slam slogan it would be so much better.

I'm sure people have others.
 
Yeah, the amount of time Luke stood there eating to catch his lightsaber always bothered me. No way he should have gotten away with that.

It’s also interesting how much more flashy and powerful Jedi are in more recent Star Wars films/shows vs. how Luke and Obi-wan were in the original trilogy.
 
Good Will Hunting

In the bar scene, after Will shows everyone that he is the smartest guy on the planet, his nemesis responds that Will be serving his kids fries one day. Why would he assume that?

And Will’s response? Well, at least I will be original. Worst comeback of all time.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Yeah, the amount of time Luke stood there eating to catch his lightsaber always bothered me. No way he should have gotten away with that.

It’s also interesting how much more flashy and powerful Jedi are in more recent Star Wars films/shows vs. how Luke and Obi-wan were in the original trilogy.
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Interesting that you also are bugged by the light saber. To me, that speaks to the importance of that fuckup. There are plenty of little glitches and moments of unreality (like Han on the Death Star, who must run like a 2 minute mile chasing and being chased) and most of them we forget or maybe don't really even notice. But this glitch is significant. It messes up what is supposed to be the big scene of the opening act of the film.
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
While we're on lyrics that bug us, I've got beef with Toto's "Africa." Great song, but what is this: "Sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti"

Sure as mountain #1 rises like mountain #2? Well, yeah. They're both mountains.
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What's worse is you can't even see Kilimanjaro from the Serengeti, it's too far away.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Yeah, the amount of time Luke stood there eating to catch his lightsaber always bothered me. No way he should have gotten away with that.

It’s also interesting how much more flashy and powerful Jedi are in more recent Star Wars films/shows vs. how Luke and Obi-wan were in the original trilogy.
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More CGI, better and more ambitious choreography and less bulky costumes.

Bob Anderson was the stuntman in Vader's suit for the original trilogy. He was mid-40s to mid-50s and a former Olympic fencer. Fight scenes got better throughout the series but it's still mostly him parrying Luke with his arm. Not much movement. I think a lot of that can be attributed to the costume.

Alec Guinness was in his early 60s when he poked at Darth Vader. I don't think he was in good shape to be able to do much. He actually lived for another 25 years but he was a heavy smoker. But it was the first one and they didn't have as much money so it might have been Vader's costume.

I thought Mark Hamill did okay when he wasn't fighting Vader but there were some serious issues with the choreography. But 10 year old me absolutely loved it and didn't notice the hand waiting for the light saber or the phantom kick of the guard that missed him by 2 feet.

Christopher Lee was in his late 70s when he did count dooku but a lot of the fight scenes are his stunt double with Christopher Lee's face CGI'd on it. That was pretty common with all the actors when they needed to use a stunt man in the prequels.

Ray Park, who did Darth maul, probably looked the best. He was a martial artist and stuntman and was in his early twenties when he filmed phantom menace.

Ian McDiarmid, Ewan Mcgregor and Hayden Christensen did most of their own fight scenes. Samuel L Jackson and Liam Neeson did some but used more stuntmen. The choreography was better as without the Darth Vader costume, they were able to add more movement with their legs, spins, flips using wires, and the cgi was good for 20 years ago. The original trilogy used almost no CGI and none during the fight scenes.

Jackson and McDiarmid actually did pretty well for a couple of older guys, but even if you look at Palpatine's fight scene against Windu, McDiarmid is actually pretty limited, although not nearly as limited as a similar aged Alec Guinness.
 
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gtyellowjacket said:
More CGI, better and more ambitious choreography and less bulky costumes.

Bob Anderson was the stuntman in Vader's suit for the original trilogy. He was mid-40s to mid-50s and a former Olympic fencer. Fight scenes got better throughout the series but it's still mostly him parrying Luke with his arm. Not much movement. I think a lot of that can be attributed to the costume.

Alec Guinness was in his early 60s when he poked at Darth Vader. I don't think he was in good shape to be able to do much. He actually lived for another 25 years but he was a heavy smoker. But it was the first one and they didn't have as much money so it might have been Vader's costume.

I thought Mark Hamill did okay when he wasn't fighting Vader but there were some serious issues with the choreography. But 10 year old me absolutely loved it and didn't notice the hand waiting for the light saber or the phantom kick of the guard that missed him by 2 feet.

Christopher Lee was in his late 70s when he did count dooku but a lot of the fight scenes are his stunt double with Christopher Lee's face CGI'd on it. That was pretty common with all the actors when they needed to use a stunt man in the prequels.

Ray Park, who did Darth maul, probably looked the best. He was a martial artist and stuntman and was in his early twenties when he filmed phantom menace.

Ian McDiarmid, Ewan Mcgregor and Hayden Christensen did most of their own fight scenes. Samuel L Jackson and Liam Neeson did some but used more stuntmen. The choreography was better as without the Darth Vader costume, they were able to add more movement with their legs, spins, flips using wires, and the cgi was good for 20 years ago. The original trilogy used almost no CGI and none during the fight scenes.

Jackson and McDiarmid actually did pretty well for a couple of older guys, but even if you look at Palpatine's fight scene against Windu, McDiarmid is actually pretty limited, although not nearly as limited as a similar aged Alec Guinness.
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I don't think he's talking only or even primarily about light saber fights.

It's the other stuff. Yoda and Luke used the force to jump really high and lift heavy objects, but according to Yoda the force can't resist death. Ha! Tell that to Rae, who uses it precisely that way. On a snake even, for no reason. Would Yoda have been able to survive in outer space by frosting over and flying like Mary Poppins? Seems doubtful. Rae can use the force to shoot out a lightning bolt that destroys a transport ship. Vader could merely choke people from a distance. Luke projects his image across the galaxy, apparently at a very high warp speed because it gets there way faster than light. Those things that were unimaginable in the originals.

The Force didn't need a video game style exposition. It was just the thing that made these powerful monks powerful, which is important so that we care about what happens to them. It was about character development. When Leia found out she had force abilities, it didn't mean she became a warrior. It just meant she came to understand herself better. It didn't get turned into D&D wizardry until ep 7.
 
Honestly the inclusion of Yoda in the prequels undermine his later appearance in The Empire Strikes Back.

They could've just left him alone, referred to him in passing, said he was on a vision quest or a mission. And this is all to say nothing of how he was actually handled - a martial artist entirely in tune with the universe who has had hundreds of years to hone his craft, and what we get is a cricket on meth with a glow stick.
 
In Miller's Crossing, I've always struggled with the ease with which Johnny Caspar turns on the Dane and whacks him, believing the word of the smart charismatic turncoat Tom Reagan. Is it because Tom doesn't confess when the Dane is choking him out? Is it because the Dane is gay and Johnny just can't trust him? The Dane has been loyal and "straight" with Johnny throughout but he tosses it all aside on Tom's word. Never have bought it.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
In Miller's Crossing, I've always struggled with the ease with which Johnny Caspar turns on the Dane and whacks him, believing the word of the smart charismatic turncoat Tom Reagan. Is it because Tom doesn't confess when the Dane is choking him out? Is it because the Dane is gay and Johnny just can't trust him? The Dane has been loyal and "straight" with Johnny throughout but he tosses it all aside on Tom's word. Never have bought it.
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Honestly, I didn't know the Dane was gay. I thought Mink was Bernie's lover, not the Dane's. I must have missed that, or maybe misremembered. Watched it a long time ago.

But anyway, I agree with you 100%. In fairness, Caspar was not a model of deliberative rationality, but it does stretch the imagination to think that he would side with the guy who just defected from the enemy and is thus obviously suspicious over his own loyal henchman.

I would place this in a larger category of "characters doing stupid things because the bad guys aren't allowed to win in Hollywood." Like the ending of the Jackal, which is probably the worst in this regard. Or for that matter, Vader throwing the Emperor down the tube with no resistance, and the Emperor just falls instead of using a force power. Or the final scene in Heat, which I think is a complete departure from and betrayal of De Niro's character and makes no sense except as a way of turning a bad guy victory into defeat.
 
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