The 10 Public Univ with best ROI

mpaer said:
Wow
School teachers number 1
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I don't feel like digging through that mess for it but one of the keys to understanding that System Study is that if a graduate was not working in North Carolina they were essentially a negative for a program...same for recent grads in professional or graduate schools. So if a department is producing PHD students or researchers or even multiple graduates who leave the state for work (seems to be a real reason for the "hit" to Drama departments for example) then their ROI will be lower. That is also why, at least so far, that ROI for school teachers is what it is.

It was this study that was a major contributor to UNCG losing multiple majors and programs though a list of other reasons was also cited.

Undergraduate programs/majors
  • BA, Anthropology
  • BA, Secondary Education in Geography
  • BS and BA, Physics
  • BS, Physical Education, Teacher Education (K‑12)
  • BA, Religious Studies

Graduate Programs/M.A.s

  • Post-Baccalaureate Certificate in Nursing
  • Post-Baccalaureate Certificate in Advanced Practice Foundations (Nursing)
  • MA, Applied Geography
  • MFA, Drama – Directing Concentration (other Drama concentrations continue)
  • MFA, Interior Architecture
  • MA, Languages, Literatures, and Cultures
  • MAT, Languages, Literatures, and Cultures in Teaching
  • MA, Mathematics (all concentrations)
  • MEd, Special Education
  • Dual Master’s: Nursing Science & Business Administration (MBA and MSN separately remain active)
  • PhD, Communication Sciences and Disorders
  • PhD, Computational Mathematics

The ROI of it
  • Enrollment (number of majors/minors)
  • Graduation rates
  • Credit hours generated
  • Faculty workload
  • External funding or grant productivity
  • Cost per graduate
  • Student-to-faculty ratios

In 2023, after the cutting, UNCG altered its model to one that rewards the following "performance-based metrics":
  • Degree completions
  • Efficiency
  • Post-graduation outcomes
  • STEM and health degrees
And penalizes programs with low graduation numbers or "limited workforce alignment" — such as some liberal arts and specialized graduate programs — Those programs are essentially low-ROI under the new model.
Update from Provost Storrs - March 2023 | UNCG Provost

 
I presume Roberts is thinking more about alumni fund-raising by adding engineering and boosting computer science. Plenty of great universities have terrific liberal arts programs AND engineerin etc. UNC got pushed out of engineering by state politics IIRC.

The Business School and MBA probably still offers most conistent ROI re fund-raising. UNC certainly has beneffited from hedge funders like Julian Robertson. Watched a recent David Rubinstein interviw of Maverick hedge fund founder Lee Ainsley who was rebiffed by Stanford so he got at MBA at UNC instead.

In the age of AI imo, degrees requiring original. critical and creative thinking will be very useful
 
I wonder what is the ROI for trade schools who turn out plumbers, electricians, and HVAC techs compared to those who have an undergraduate college degree ?
 
There is obviously a ton of incredible scholarship and research that comes out of Ivy League schools and other elite public universities, but I love that public universities are really having their day in the sun right now. Hiring managers at even some of the biggest companies and firms that have historically filled their recruiting and hiring pipelines with Ivy League graduates, are starting to find that the upper tier kids that come out of places like UVA, UT Austin, UGA, UF, UNC, etc. are every bit as bright and intelligent as their Ivy League graduate counterpart, and often times are more teachable/coachable. I was in a conversation with a gentleman next to be on a plane earlier this year who is in the C-suite for a very well-known consulting firm who said that the new grads that he hires from places like UVA’s McIntire School of Commerce and UT Austin’s McCombs School of Business often times run laps around the kids he has hired from Harvard, Princeton, etc in terms of work ethic and being coachable.
 
CFordUNC said:
There is obviously a ton of incredible scholarship and research that comes out of Ivy League schools and other elite public universities, but I love that public universities are really having their day in the sun right now. Hiring managers at even some of the biggest companies and firms that have historically filled their recruiting and hiring pipelines with Ivy League graduates, are starting to find that the upper tier kids that come out of places like UVA, UT Austin, UGA, UF, UNC, etc. are every bit as bright and intelligent as their Ivy League graduate counterpart, and often times are more teachable/coachable. I was in a conversation with a gentleman next to be on a plane earlier this year who is in the C-suite for a very well-known consulting firm who said that the new grads that he hires from places like UVA’s McIntire School of Commerce and UT Austin’s McCombs School of Business often times run laps around the kids he has hired from Harvard, Princeton, etc in terms of work ethic and being coachable.
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At the risk of being really obvious, I don’t think it’s that public schools are having their moment. I think it’s that degrees from mediocre/poor schools are losing their value, whether public or private. Elite schools are doing great, regardless of status. I suspect dozens of bad colleges will fail in the next 5-6 years. And a bunch of mediocre schools will as well. If you’re not elite, you’re in trouble.
 
It’s well documented that recently there has been a small, but noticeable, shift from the Ivies to Southern elite schools.
 
Ramrouser said:
It’s well documented that recently there has been a small, but noticeable, shift from the Ivies to Southern elite schools.
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I’m SO going to regret asking this, but what’s that documentation?

I would completely agree a Women’s Studies degree from Cornell or Columbia is a losing proposition. I’d also agree southern publics like UNC, UVA, UGA and UF have dramatically improved their profile in recent years. I would be very interested, though, so see any evidence that a Cornell or Columbia grad is less likely to get into an elite law or business school than a UGA or UF grad. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
 
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lawtig02 said:
I’m SO going to regret asking this, but what’s that documentarian?

I would completely agree a Women’s Studies degree from Cornell or Columbia is a losing proposition. I’d also agree southern publics like UNC, UVA, UGA and UF have dramatically improved their profile in recent years. I would be very interested, though, so see any evidence that a Cornell or Columbia grad is less likey to get into an elite law or business school than a UGA or UF grad. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
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New York Times article I’ll find it tomorrow for you
 
Ramrouser said:
New York Times article I’ll find it tomorrow for you
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Ok. Will be interesting to see what you post. I did a quick scan and see articles saying —

1. Southern colleges like UNC are getting squeezed terribly by GOP state legislatures, which is impacting the quality of education provided.

2. We’ve had anti-intellectual moments in our past that have challenged elite universities like the Ivies, but they’ve been able to adjust or wait it out to survive.

But I’m sure you can post something I missed. And you get a x10 token if it extols the virtues of Mercer Law.
 
wmheel1287 said:
We live in an era where everything is transactional. Thats not to say that there shouldn't be some measure of the monetary value of higher education...but it shouldn't be the only measure either.
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I get that. However, it seems to me that ROI has become the driving force or too much of a driving force.
 
I believe the purpose of higher education should be to promote the tenets of classical education.

With apologies to JFK...

Ask not what I can "do" with this education but what this education can do "for" me
 
uncmba said:
Was he referencing a NY Post article:
nypost.com

Students opting for Southern schools like Clemson over rising antisemitism at Ivy League institutions

Prospective students are increasingly opting for colleges like Elon in North Carolina, Clemson in South Carolina and the University of Miami in Florida over elite northeastern schools.
nypost.com nypost.com
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Yes and a September 27, 2024 Wall Street Journal article "Sorry, Harvard, Everyone Wants to Go to College in the South Now." "The likes of Georgia Tech, Clemson and Ole Miss are drawing students from the North who want to have fun and save on tuition." "The shift is boasting the economies of cities across the region."

No one is suggesting that the Ivy League is irrelevant but the trend favors UNC and other southern schools.
 
Back in the 1970s there was a significant number of Yankees at UNC who were there to have fun and save on tuition. Many became good friends of mine. They could very often be found over at St. Anthony's Hall.

And/Or on the Lacrosse Team.
 
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