The Charlie Kirk Thread

[Calheel]

Actually you do. If you are still working, you could be surrounded by anti-vax psychos right now.

There are tons of viruses and vaccines. The government can't, and shouldn't, tell any business how they manage their employees vaccination.

Start a new thread. This is the Charlie Kirk thread.

 

[Rock]

Yeah, we are pretty loose with how we “moderate“ but if there’s one issue that doesn’t need to derail another thread, it’s arguing about Covid/vaccines.

 

[finesse]

A week or so ago, VP Vance made a comment (that was widely misquoted) that a wise pollster told him that the problem with midterm elections for almost every sitting president was that midterm voters tend to be the angry people and MAGA voters are happy with the Trump Administration, so they don’t have that angry driver to get out and vote in the 2026 midterm.

Well, this assassination provides exactly what the Trump Administration was looking for — a martyr to inflame their supporters to act by voting. I am not saying they are happy this happened to Kirk or engineered it or something — I am just saying this is a terrible political “gift” they will whole-heartedly exploit.

@Ramrouser is getting dragged by some for saying 9/10 will be the 9/11 for a lot of young conservatives but I think that may not be hyperbole — and I think conservative politicians will absolutely feed that fire. At least in the social media under 30 MAGAsphere, Kirk is an immensely popular and influential figure. He could be a powerful martyr for millions of young men and conservative young women.

The eventual power of his martyrdom will depend on the extend to which it reaches outside dedicated MAGA Men and I to the broader population. As a purely crass political matter, that makes it vitally important to Trump, Vance and those who will use his martyrdom for their own purposes to whitewash and nice Kirk’s views — simplify his often extreme rhetoric to be anodyne support for traditional family values, patriotism, being a good Christian Dad and free speech advocate.

I doubt that Trump will mention that Kirk was a vocal supporter of releasing the Epstein Files — mentioning that will be considered in bad taste or something. Bringing up Kirk’s radical statements about gun rights and LGBTQ rights to exist and women’s rights outside a traditional motherhood role subject to the husband’s control will be treated as disrespect for the dead to sanitize Kirk’s martyrdom.

How dare you speak ill of the dead — even if you are quoting his own recorded words — will be a well worn cudgel.

The playbook is well worn for political martyrdom. Martyrdom is political sainthood.

This resonates. After all, look at how conservatives used the tragedy of 9/11 for political purposes and started a war against Iraq that had literally been planned since before Shrub was elected. Thinking that they care about the people instead of their agenda is foolish. This Horst Wessel, oops, I mean Charlie Kirk thing is no different.

 

[finesse]

Actually you do. If you are still working, you could be surrounded by anti-vax psychos right now.

There are tons of viruses and vaccines. The government can't, and shouldn't, tell any business how they manage their employees vaccination.

Go tell George Washington at Valley Forge or any of the the towns and cities that routinely enforced quarantines for serious communicable diseases up until the 1950s. It's a principle that is been in place since epidemics started.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Judge defies resignation calls over 'disgusting' Charlie Kirk post

A suburban Detroit judge shrugged off calls to resign following backlash over her social media post about the killing of Charlie Kirk.On Wednesday evening, Jaimie Powell Horowitz, an Oak Park district court judge, posted a quote from Kirk just hours after he was slain, in which he said in 2023...

www.rawstory.com

On Wednesday evening, Jaimie Powell Horowitz, an Oak Park district court judge, posted a quote from Kirk just hours after he was slain, in which he said in 2023, "I think it’s worth it to have the cost of unfortunately some gun deaths every year..so we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God given rights. It’s a prudent deal, a rational deal."

So accurately quoting offensive and controversial things that Kirk said in his life should lead to people being fired or forced to resign? If merely quoting Kirk's own statements is enough to get people fired then a lot of people are going to be losing their jobs as we move forward. I thought Trumpers were opposed to cancel culture and to snowflake behavior <rolls eyes>.

 

[BillOfRights]

Actually you do. If you are still working, you could be surrounded by anti-vax psychos right now.

There are tons of viruses and vaccines. The government can't, and shouldn't, tell any business how they manage their employees vaccination.

Do you agree that the government can prohibit smoking in workplaces?

Explain how exhaling cancer-causing smoke in crowded enclosed workplaces is different from exhaling a deadly virus.

 

[Healing]

So accurately quoting offensive and controversial things that Kirk said in his life should lead to people being fired or forced to resign? If merely quoting Kirk's own statements is enough to get people fired then a lot of people are going to be losing their jobs as we move forward. I thought Trumpers were opposed to cancel culture and to snowflake behavior <rolls eyes>.

Remember when conservatives told us they were the party of personal responsibility?

 

[wmheel1287]

I detest conspiracy theories and I hate that im going to say the following with no idea whatsoever about who this killer is or his motivations. However, if one were a foreign state actor and wanted to create further American civil unrest for your own benefit, would there be a much better way than something like this?

Could we put such a thing beyond some nations who thrive on US internal discord?

 

[korgguy1971]

So accurately quoting offensive and controversial things that Kirk said in his life should lead to people being fired or forced to resign? If merely quoting Kirk's own statements is enough to get people fired then a lot of people are going to be losing their jobs as we move forward. I thought Trumpers were opposed to cancel culture and to snowflake behavior <rolls eyes>.

Exactly, and this is why I don't see the problem with what Matthew Dowd said yesterday and I don't think he should have been fired for it.

I say that I don't see the problem in the same way I didn't see the problem with Bill Maher saying, "the hijackers in the planes weren't cowards" (paraphrasing) which also got him fired from ABC and ended his show, Politically Incorrect. If it was a non-MAGA** person killed and a Fox talking head said what Dowd said, does anyone really think they would be fired and then issue an apology afterward? Zero chance. Quite the opposite - they'd dig in, double down, and say, "goddamned right I meant it, and furthermore ________________________."



(**IMO, we need to stop playing into the MAGA conditioning of saying "left(ist)(s)" and "Democrat(s)" and say "non-MAGA," since MAGA folks always default to saying "the (radical) left" and/or "Democrat(s)" when it's someone outside their cult. Many of us here are not lefties or Democrats (not there there's anything wrong with it if you are of course), but we may be (former) Republicans currently without a party, who still may identify as moderate/somewhat conservative or would have identified as a Republican/conservative years ago or in a different time period.)

 

[heelinhell]

Very odd. In the early 1970's when I worked weekends at Gravely Sanatorium, a TB hospital, as an orderly, I didn't get vaccinated. I got the skin test and an X-Ray, but no vaccine. I would have been OK with a vaccine given I worked with, turned, bathed, and fed, TB patients 2 or 3 shifts a week.

I was working in a hospital in the 1980s. Perhaps the protocol had changed by then ? or perhaps where I worked was more strict than where you worked ?

 

[CFordUNC]

I detest conspiracy theories and I hate that im going to say the following with no idea whatsoever about who this killer is or his motivations. However, if one were a foreign state actor and wanted to create further American civil unrest for your own benefit, would there be a much better way than something like this?

Could we put such a thing beyond some nations who thrive on US internal discord?

I don’t think it’s that outlandish at all. The longer we go without the shooter being apprehended the more it feels like a really well done professional hit.

 

[nycfan]

 

[Healing]

I detest conspiracy theories and I hate that im going to say the following with no idea whatsoever about who this killer is or his motivations. However, if one were a foreign state actor and wanted to create further American civil unrest for your own benefit, would there be a much better way than something like this?

Could we put such a thing beyond some nations who thrive on US internal discord?

You certainly aren’t the first one to think it. Hell, I wondered (and the thought continues to linger) if our government did it, the moment the “transgender and anti fascist” ideologies were “found” engraved on the casing.

This is an intractable problem with maga - they lie about everything and believe anything; thus, it’s absolutely impossible to trust the most basic information emerging from the government. Not to mention, this is allegedly the representation of American domestic investigative competence …

 

[McAdooSmackinYou]

seems like we're close to knowing who it was - like 2 weeks close

 

[nycfan]

 

[heelinhell]

I thought Trump would be proposing this, but Nancy Mace is out with it first

C'mon Nancy

You are putting forth a resolution that allows Kirk to lie in the Rotunda ? The 1st Amendment would allow him to lie in the Rotunda . It's called freedom of speech.

But he is dead and cannot lie in the Rotunda so let him rest in peace.

 

[nycfan]

 

[ZenMode]

Go tell George Washington at Valley Forge or any of the the towns and cities that routinely enforced quarantines for serious communicable diseases up until the 1950s. It's a principle that is been in place since epidemics started.

I'm talking about vaccines. Not quarantines. Not lockdowns. Not martial law or anything else that is similar to a quarantine.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

I'm talking about vaccines. Not quarantines. Not lockdowns. Not martial law or anything else that is similar to a quarantine.

We're talking about Charlie Kirk. Perhaps you are on the wrong thread.

 

[ZenMode]

Do you agree that the government can prohibit smoking in workplaces?

Explain how exhaling cancer-causing smoke in crowded enclosed workplaces is different from exhaling a deadly virus.

Banning smoking in public areas is not the same as a government forcing you to be injected with something.

It's really pretty amazing to see how many people support the idea of the government forcing basically every employed person in the country to get vaccinated and not even blink an eye.