thebruinbleedstarheelblue
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lol you fell for the profit narrative
The Charlie Kirk Thread
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Rogan's audience skews young to middle aged and male. Many of them are what we would have traditionally classified as "low-propensity voters" A lot of them probably didn't even vote in 2024; a lot of them probably voted for the first time or the first time in a long time. His audience overlaps (to what extent is debatable) with those of truly odious "manosphere" dirtbags like Adin Ross and Andrew Tate, but it is by no means coextensive with those more toxic corners of the manosphere. Rogan's audience likely has both a lot of college-educated and non-college educated listeners, but probably not that many (in a relative sense) with graduate/professional degrees. Some of them are heavily anti-intellectual; some of them are the "suspicious of authority" types that would have historically been as likely to be considered "far left" as "far right." (In that way it's similar to the "MAHA" movement which has brought together both far-right and far-left people who have historically distrusted government and regulation for different reasons, through their shared anti-science, pro-home-remedy, somewhat conspiracy theory-prone sensibilities).
The Democratic Party, in my opinion, badly underestimated the impact of this cohort of potential voters in 2024 - disaffected, mostly white (but also increasingly latino and black) men in the 18-44 age group who feel like they have been falling behind economically and culturally, blamed the party that appeared to be ruling at the time for that, and were very much turned off by the left's electoral pitches (they are not motivated by "rule of law," which they barely understand and/or don't care about, and were turned off by what they perceived as identity politics, swayed by messaging that misleadingly painted Trump as focusing on the economy and jobs over culture wars). And that was one of the major factors in the election - Trump and his people eschewed a more traditional media strategy and had Trump do a manosphere podcaster/streamer tour, which was strategically very effective.
Are some parts of that audience practically unreachable for Dems? Yes, probably. But men 18-44 (or even simply white men 18-44 without college and/or graduate degrees) are too big a group for Dems to simply say "we will concede that group and force ourselves to build a coalition without them." And many of those same people are the ones who are going to be turned off by the more authoritarian stuff the administration is doing, because they don't really like heavy-handed government intervention (unlike, say, a "ramrouser MAGA" type who supports heavy-handed government intervention as long as it is directed at people he doesn't like). Whether that means they vote Dem or just go back to not voting at all, it is important to keep Trump from consolidating his hold on that group.
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This will not happen if people continue to lionize CK as some sort of paragon of the virtue of debate. CK made himself and his organization famous - and made himself a lot of money - by stoking hate on social media. The whole initial point of his "debate me" videos was to create rage-baiting clips with captions like "OMG listen to what crazy liberal says when Charlie Kirk destroys her."
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Haha. I think Cruz and Rogan are actually an interesting juxtaposition. Cruz is very smart but extremely malicious and malignant. Rogan is neither malicious nor malignant (or at least far less of those things than Cruz) but is far less intelligent and as a result malicious and malignant people can manipulate him very easily. The one thing both guys share is that they have realized how to get extremely wealthy and/or powerful by understanding what their audience wants, and giving it to them.
I have zero faith that Jeff Bezos will “do the right thing.” He has “FUCK YOU MONEY” and he bends the knee to Trump. I realize he has a space company that likely is dependent on US Government contracts. I realize that Trump can fuck with Amazon. Jeff Bezos has “FUCK YOU MONEY.” Jeff is 61 and has the BEST MEDICAL CARE. Regardless, his time on earth is coming to a close; and, despite having “FUCK YOU MONEY,” Jeff is good giving Trump rim jobs.
Tim Cook might not have “FUCK YOU MONEY.” After all, he’s only worth $2.5 billion. Tim might be beholden to Apple’s Board of Directors; maybe they’re Trumplicans. Low billions might not be “FUCK YOU MONEY.” Tim Cook is 64.
Bezos and Cook should have on their tombstones, “I was beyond wealthy. When the time came for me to stand up and be counted, I gave Donald Trump a rim job.”
Tim Cook might not have “FUCK YOU MONEY.” After all, he’s only worth $2.5 billion. Tim might be beholden to Apple’s Board of Directors; maybe they’re Trumplicans. Low billions might not be “FUCK YOU MONEY.” Tim Cook is 64.
Bezos and Cook should have on their tombstones, “I was beyond wealthy. When the time came for me to stand up and be counted, I gave Donald Trump a rim job.”
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This. Every bit of this.
ChapelHillSooner
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Ultimately, the point isn't the firing of Kimmel but the FCC's actions themselves. What the FCC did (whether it ultimately made a difference) is a very serious assault on our freedom of speech.
But, also, it is disingenuous to argue that the threats made had no impact on ABC's decision.
Callatoroy
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I like Kilmeade but he misrepresented / misreported the UNC academic issue. His comments about the homelessSo, @Callatoroy and @Ramrouser should Brian Kilmeade be fired? It seems that his words are far more detrimental to people.
Over a dozen injured in Minneapolis shootings at homeless camp and near transit station
The shootings come during a particularly violent summer for the Minneapolis area, including the gunning down of a lawmaker and her husband and a deadly mass shooting at a Catholic school.www.nbcnews.com
I like kilmeade but he misrepresented / misreported on the UNC academic mess. His comments about executing mentally ill homeless people in wake of the charlotte stabbing should get him fired if we are holding everyone to the same standard that professional journalists should be held to. IMO He is getting a pass because his comment was about the homeless which people don't tend to be sympathetic towards compared to CK. Doesn't make it ok and violent rhetoric is violent rhetoric. He should be fired.So, @Callatoroy and @Ramrouser should Brian Kilmeade be fired? It seems that his words are far more detrimental to people.
Over a dozen injured in Minneapolis shootings at homeless camp and near transit station
The shootings come during a particularly violent summer for the Minneapolis area, including the gunning down of a lawmaker and her husband and a deadly mass shooting at a Catholic school.
Callatoroy
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It went much further than that.
Callatoroy
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I didn't fall for anything. It is a variable in all of this and you seem only focused on one aspect of it. Namely, the fcc pressuring ABC. While I agree that is very troubling based on what knowledge I have, it isn't the only thing in play. This relates to only broadcast licensing. JK can now say anything he wants and the g'ment can't touch him. So his freedom of speech hasn't been neutered. Only his ability to draw a check from ABC and say dumb shit. ABC, part of a public company where profits matter, could have told trump and the fcc to kick rocks but they didn't because....why?
Callatoroy
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I wasn't very knowledgeable about CK prior to the shooting. Since then I have become quite knowledgeable about him. Just as with anyone, there are positives and negatives. He said some things that I don't understand without more context and that are perplexing to me. IMO, his positives far outweighed any negatives. He don't believe he stood for hate speech because nothing about him points to that being a part of his personality. Where he failed is in better explaining his pov's on things that many felt were hateful. I'm not going to change your opinion and am not trying to. Just stating my opinion on your comment.
Callatoroy
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Not excusing anything. I think i have been clear. I think the issue goes deeper than a biased, kneejerk reaction strengthened by hatred. There are parts I am troubled by and rhetoric that is intolerable to me.
ChapelHillSooner
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Because it is not just a challenge to one belief but their entire worldview.
Callatoroy
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Are you comparing the two? The only appropriate comparison is that both were male and neither deserved to die. There was a comment in an earlier post saying CK shouldn't be lionized. My guess is you likely agree with that. You know who else shouldn't be lionized? George Floyd. Didn't stop the media and many on the left though did it?
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Unfortunately, many will not even listen to the words because of the speaker.
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He and the guest, they both laughed at Biden until they figured out that Biden was quoting trump.
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Agree with some of what you say.
BUT, trump has been about pettiness since he lost in 2020. Everyone knew what they were getting and they were ok with it.
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Because they didn't want to deal with a $15Billion lawsuit like filed against the NYT. The amounts in these trump lawsuits is beyond ridiculous and he should probably lose these case, except the risk isn't worth it to the companies so they cave and his cult thinks he won.
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The big difference is that the Floyd case was about what happened to him. For Kirk they want to lionize him for his supposed courageous life.
As you said, neither deserved to die. Floyd's was a case of police overuse of force which happens much more often in this country.
Ultimately, neither should have been killed and both were probably avoidable.