The Charlie Kirk Thread

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Geisterfahrer said:
You gotta love Christians quoting Leviticus about … anything.
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Leviticus 19:19: “Keep my decrees. ... Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.”

Wondering why your wool-cotton blend wardrobe isn't gonna get you sent straight to hell? Don't worry, QotQuestions.com (Why does the Bible speak against wearing clothing made of different types of fabric? | GotQuestions.org) has you covered...

Is it wrong for a Christian today to wear clothing made of two different types of material? The clear and unequivocal answer is “no.” The prohibition against blended fabric was for ancient Israel living under the law, not for the New Testament Christian in the age of grace. The ceremonial laws for ancient Israel as recorded in the Old Testament simply do not apply today.

Expect of course when it does still apply.... And don't worry, I'll be sure to tell you when it does and doesn't apply...

Kirk wanted to proselytize Christianity, but honestly, if we could just leave Christianity as some sort of numinous "Christ said love your neighbor and take care of people even if they are not in your in-group" (a Samaritan!, for Heaven's sake!) then sign me up. But all this disingenuous, hypocritical, and self serving parsing of words is such a turn off. Just so much mental masturbation. If that's Christianity, then no thank you, I'll pass.
 
Ddseddse said:
Leviticus 19:19: “Keep my decrees. ... Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.”

Wondering why your wool-cotton blend wardrobe isn't gonna get you sent straight to hell? Don't worry, QotQuestions.com (Why does the Bible speak against wearing clothing made of different types of fabric? | GotQuestions.org) has you covered...

Is it wrong for a Christian today to wear clothing made of two different types of material? The clear and unequivocal answer is “no.” The prohibition against blended fabric was for ancient Israel living under the law, not for the New Testament Christian in the age of grace. The ceremonial laws for ancient Israel as recorded in the Old Testament simply do not apply today.

Expect of course when it does still apply.... And don't worry, I'll be sure to tell you when it does and doesn't apply...

Kirk wanted to proselytize Christianity, but honestly, if we could just leave Christianity as some sort of numinous "Christ said love your neighbor and take care of people even if they are not in your in-group" (a Samaritan!, for Heaven's sake!) then sign me up. But all this disingenuous, hypocritical, and self serving parsing of words is such a turn off. Just so much mental masturbation. If that's Christianity, then no thank you, I'll pass.
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Fundamentalist conservative Christians have adopted the moral, civil and cermonial idea to distinguish which laws of Moses survived the New Testament. Of course, there is no principled way to distinguish these categories in the Bible itself; it is just a convenient way to pick and choose what the fundamentalists want to enforce.

Here is a true biblical scholar, Dan McClellan, explaining why Charlie Kirk misunderstands the Bible.

 
UNCatTech said:
Of what relevance is this?

Are there conditions in our government that define the tipping point to transition from a random youtuber to a special youtuber?

Also, whet did you read that 100 MILLION streamed his convention?

Also, from what i read, there were under 100K at the memorial, nit 200k, this must be fox news numbers.
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As a matter of fact there were 277,000 confirmed cell phones on or around State Farm arena during the Memorial Service.
 
Ramrouser said:
Yeah, ok. Does a random YouTuber draw 200k for a memorial service with a streaming audience of 100M?
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Hahahahahahahahahaha! There wasn't nearly that many people there. But the crowd he did draw can be directly attributed to your marmalade messiah using his death to push his agenda. You MAGAts will rally around anything orange shitler says.

BTW, what kind of memorial service is conducted in a football stadium complete with pyrotechnics and concession stands? EVERYTHING is a grift with you people.
 
Ramrouser said:
The Kirk Memorial was the first HUGE event on the right during the last decade that did not revolve around Trump. TPUSA is MAGA adjacent but Kirk not Trump is the clear leader. The Memorial would have been just as large without Trump - who was really just a side piece for the event. The crowd was decidedly younger (and likely more educated) than a typical MAGA rally and Kirk/Jesus not Trump was the main focus.

Kirk quietly built over the last decade his organization which focused on a college age (recently HS) audience. He brought to campus the rare opportunity for the students to engage in real dialogue and debate on a wide range of issues. Colleges, decades ago, abandoned true free speech and debate in favor of indoctrination. Conservative voices were not welcome. The students loved it as his events over the years drew larger and larger audiences. Kirk also openly spoke about his faith in an unapologetic way.

All this is to say is that he developed a huge following of educated, under 35, people. He was off or under the radar to a lot of people, even those who follow politics (my Wife had never heard of him until after his death). His message was to live a traditional life: Find a soul mate; marry; have kids early and often; engage in respectful debate; and finally, devote your life to Jesus Christ. The message resonated and was refreshing to many young people as that is NOT the message popular culture pushes in media, entertainment and education.

I think you saw the fruits of his work during the last election and the movement is only going to get stronger.
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1. You're many pages behind, I see. We've already established that Kirk didn't debate. He "debated" -- meaning that he held the microphone, he got to act as his own moderator, and he lied with impunity because you can't fact-check in real time except "he said, she said."

2. It's unclear to me how much time you have actually spent on a college campus in your life (and what % of that was sober). But you haven't been near one for a long time and you should drop this indoctrination bullshit.

When I would teach my students, I would insist they actually learn corporate law. Thus did I "indoctrinate" them as to the nature of equity capital, the fact that the duty of care hasn't been an important consideration for courts or boards since the 1980s, that appraisal was a poor remedy that was being arbitraged by opportunistic hedge funds (not technically arbitrage but the cases used that word).

Some of my leftie students were appalled to hear me claim that industrial development required laws that could a) separate ownership from control; and b) shielded entities from the debts of their "owners." I indoctrinated them anyway. My conservative students were dismayed to learn that corporations were not things that could be owned, but I indoctrinated them anyway. Amazingly, despite the indoctrination, my students passed the bar at high rates; placed at top employers in the region; and generally speaking learned the law.

3. On college campuses, voices of ignorance are not respected, that is true. That "conservative" and "ignorant" are so often synonymous is something that should give you pause, not me. I don't give a fuck about ideology. The Holocaust happened. I'm not interested in "debating" anyone -- left or right -- who claims it didn't. Systemic racism exists, and I'm not interested in debating anyone who claims it doesn't.

4. Do you really think that colleges are filled with people of faith who are apologetic about it? There are atheists and theists in college. All of them are respected, as evidenced by the widespread presence and funding for student groups of all faiths. On my college campus, there was a protestant church. There was also a Catholic student center that conducted services for the Catholic students literally right across the street (and of course it was open to anyone), and a Hillel center, and so on.

Charlie Kirk did not have faith. He pretended to have faith. It is inconceivable that he had actually absorbed Christ's message when saying things like "school shootings are acceptable side effects of the Second Amendment." That the right-wing has normalized the ludicrous concept of "god given Second Amendment rights" doesn't make it any less ridiculous as a concept.

Why should I have respect for a person who can't even think straight about his own professed religion? Guns did not exist when Jesus lived. They wouldn't be invented for about a millennium. I guess God gave us more rights somewhere along the way, but first in China.
 
Ddseddse said:
I know I won't be able to get thought to you, and that makes me sad, but...

Charlie Kirk's poison was not not his message of "Hey here's this other value system that you might not have considered that I think might suit you, you should try it out".

Charlie Kirk's poison was "Hey here's this other value system that you might not have considered that I think might suit you, you should try it out... and if you like it, join me in using every lever of government to force it onto everybody in the USA whether they subscribe to this value system or not".

You conveniently left that second half (the poisonous half) off. I won't fall into the trap of discussing the merits of the particular value system he espoused, because the "Let's use the government to force a single value system universally on an unwilling public" is automatically disqualifying.
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I've watched a fair amount of his videos over the past five years or so and I don't see where Kirk wanted to use every lever of government to force his values on everyone in the USA. He was a conservative Christian and encouraged his audience to live that life but he didn't want to "force" it on anyone. In a podcast interview with Bill Maher (this summer) Bill started the interview by pouring himself a stiff drink and lighting up one. Maher asked Kirk if he minded. Kirk smiled and said "no" it doesn't bother me. Bill was pleasantly surprised and said that it was good that he didn't want to force Bill to live a certain way.

You may have some counter examples but none come to mind off the top of my head.
 
Calheel said:
Fundamentalist conservative Christians have adopted the moral, civil and cermonial idea to distinguish which laws of Moses survived the New Testament. Of course, there is no principled way to distinguish these categories in the Bible itself; it is just a convenient way to pick and choose what the fundamentalists want to enforce.

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Fortunately, Jesus himself is said to have addressed this very question. Jesus....which of the Laws of Moses should people follow?

Matt 5:17-19
17“Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Sounds like not one letter of the old Law should be ignored until Earth passes away
 
Ramrouser said:
As a matter of fact there were 277,000 confirmed cell phones on or around State Farm arena during the Memorial Service.
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Link?

And how do you confirm a cell phone is a supporter? How many would be there on any give day.

Based on the US population that's still well under 1% of the population.

The way you guys have made him out to be a Saint, I would have expected at least 50% of the population.
 
dukeman92 said:
Hahahahahahahahahaha! There wasn't nearly that many people there. But the crowd he did draw can be directly attributed to your marmalade messiah using his death to push his agenda. You MAGAts will rally around anything orange shitler says.

BTW, what kind of memorial service is conducted in a football stadium complete with pyrotechnics and concession stands? EVERYTHING is a grift with you people.
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Exactly, it's not a memorial service it was a trump convention.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Didn’t Grindr (the gay dating app) crash due to so many users attempting to get into it around the memorial service?
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I'm waiting on the porn/hook up industries to get fed up with this administration and start name dropping.

I'm sure Lady G is a regular customer.

Which would be ok if not for their public bigotry.
 
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Milk and Cookies said:
Fortunately, Jesus himself is said to have addressed this very question. Jesus....which of the Laws of Moses should people follow?

Matt 5:17-19
17“Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Sounds like not one letter of the old Law should be ignored until Earth passes away
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Like most everything in the Bible, there are other passages that directly contradict this. It is literally impossible to be a fundamentalist because the Bible requires you to accept some passages and reject others. Dan McClellan actually discusses the passage you cite in another video. He also notes in the video I linked that Charlie Kirk, himself, was inconsistent about whether the Law of Moses survived in full.
 
Ramrouser said:
I've watched a fair amount of his videos over the past five years or so and I don't see where Kirk wanted to use every lever of government to force his values on everyone in the USA.
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He campaigned for Trump. What do you think Trump has been doing? What is your endless crusade against trans people and DEI and gay people if not forcing your values on people?
 
Ramrouser said:
I've watched a fair amount of his videos over the past five years or so and I don't see where Kirk wanted to use every lever of government to force his values on everyone in the USA. He was a conservative Christian and encouraged his audience to live that life but he didn't want to "force" it on anyone. In a podcast interview with Bill Maher (this summer) Bill started the interview by pouring himself a stiff drink and lighting up one. Maher asked Kirk if he minded. Kirk smiled and said "no" it doesn't bother me. Bill was pleasantly surprised and said that it was good that he didn't want to force Bill to live a certain way.

You may have some counter examples but none come to mind off the top of my head.
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99% of conservative Christians want to force their beliefs on everyone, they organize in church and go door to door, they want to force kids to pray and read the ten commandments in school. This is their life mission. What a joke to pretend they don't.

And liberals don't want to force conservatives to accept anything, we just want them to treat people equally. No one wants to force you to see a drag show, but we do want you to stop trying to force those of us that do to stop. We are for equal rights, Conservatives want to ban marriage that doesn't fit their definition. We are for equal rights, Conservatives want to ban cos play performances of a man dressed as a women. We are for equal rights, Conservatives want to take away people's right to make their own medical decisions.

We are for equal rights, Conservatives want everyone to confirm to their White Christian Nationalist ideology. That's why they love project 2025s authoritarian Christian positions and the authoritarian belittling name calling idiot trump, who clearly stated that he hates those who disagree with him. We know you watched him say that as you were glued to the Trump convention for charlie.
 
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