The Charlie Kirk Thread

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those types should especially read Enns or Rohr
It does no good because the in-group dynamics colors their understanding of the Bible, not the other way around. Those type of Christian Nationalists are too guarded to have their world view changed by out group authors. They have steeled themselves as part of their in-group training and their psychological makeup is simply incapable of being open to other ideas from the out group.
 
It does no good because the in-group dynamics colors their understanding of the Bible, not the other way around. Those type of Christian Nationalists are too guarded to have their world view changed by out group authors. These have steeled themselves as part of their in-group training and their psychological makeup is simply incapable of being open to other ideas from the out group.
sadly, I know. Family members whose politics filter what they take from any world scripture, instead of having those scriptures lead one to wisdom and influence their politics.
 
No, because they don't exist. You're likely referring to out of context quotes of a small portion of one of Kirk's comments that you read about on BlueSky. Kind of like what Stephen king did with the "stoning gays" comment (for which he apologized).
King didn't apologize for saying that, he apologized for sharing misinformation, which was an incorrect quote, not a change in Kirk's opinion.

He was clear that he didn't agree with Kirk and believed Kirk is a divisive person.

Further checking the actual quote, what Kirk did was indirectly say that Gays should be stoned by referencing his mistranslated version of the Bible. So, yes he did alude to the belief that gay people should be stoned.

There is also a link to an article talking about that being incorrectly translated.

It's amazing that an inherent Bible is incorrectly translated and that no maga Christian questions it because most want to hate gay people, like Kirk did.
 
I know too well. When I try to give my take on what Wisdom the Bible leads us to regarding peacemaking, wealth and poverty, judging others, mercy, condemnation of hypocrisy, or something as clear as Leviticus 19:34 I am met with Ausländer raus (in Southern accent) and worse.
 
Traditional denominations (both Catholic and Protestant), by and large, don't foment Christian Nationalism. It is mainly confined to evangelicals.
I think that's true. With regards to Catholics, especially true outside the US, but in the US there has for some time been a growing movement to ignore the liberalization of the Vatican. Much like the evangelicals, it's driven by younger adherents.
 
I know too well. When I try to give my take on what Wisdom the Bible leads us to regarding peacemaking, wealth and poverty, judging others, mercy, condemnation of hypocrisy, or something as clear as Leviticus 19:34 I am met with Ausländer raus (in Southern accent) and worse.

But why presume that the bible has any moral relevance--any wisdom--whatsoever? Or, put less antagonistically, why presume that its contemporary relevance is primarily moral as opposed to, say, historical or literary?
 
Yeah, it was just coincidence that he and Nick Fuentes were fellow travelers for most of their respective careers.

It was just a coincidence that his organizations were staffed by people who texted that they hate black people, and also texted n-words.

It was just a coincidence that so much of his body of work was out of context.
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But why presume that the bible has any moral relevance--any wisdom--whatsoever? Or, put less antagonistically, why presume that its contemporary relevance is primarily moral as opposed to, say, historical or literary?
That's a valid take. Might be the best one. I don't know. As for me, I place very little historicity in the Bible. I see it a much more valuable.
 
That's a valid take. Might be the best one. I don't know. As for me, I place very little historicity in the Bible. I see it a much more valuable.
When I say "historical," I don't mean to suggest that I think that the seven-day creation or the Exodus or the trials of Job or the miracles of Jesus or his resurrection really happened. I just mean to suggest that the stories in the bible are valuable for what they disclose about the compilers and/or writers of the stories. For instance, the social utility of Genesis 12--God's call to Abram--starts to make a lot of sense when you realize that it was possibly composed by Judeans in exile. What could be more attractive than a story about how you've been divinely promised the land of Canaan? What could more attractive than to conceive your own return from exile as part of a providential design first carried about by the patriarch of your people?
 
When I say "historical," I don't mean to suggest that I think that the seven-day creation or the Exodus or the trials of Job or the miracles of Jesus or his resurrection really happened. I just mean to suggest that the stories in the bible are valuable for what they disclose about the compilers and/or writers of the stories. For instance, the social utility of Genesis 12--God's call to Abram--starts to make a lot of sense when you realize that it was possibly composed by Judeans in exile. What could be more attractive than a story about how you've been divinely promised the land of Canaan? What could more attractive than to conceive your own return from exile as part of a providential design first carried about by the patriarch of your people?
That's in large part, Enn's point. He writes that the Bible is ancient(most be viewed as such),diverse(many writers over a long period of time and lots of contradictions - I mean we have 2 versions of the 10 commandments), and ambiguous. It's not a rule book to be downloaded but an invitation to know the divine in the world we live in today relative to our place in it.
 
When I say "historical," I don't mean to suggest that I think that the seven-day creation or the Exodus or the trials of Job or the miracles of Jesus or his resurrection really happened. I just mean to suggest that the stories in the bible are valuable for what they disclose about the compilers and/or writers of the stories. For instance, the social utility of Genesis 12--God's call to Abram--starts to make a lot of sense when you realize that it was possibly composed by Judeans in exile. What could be more attractive than a story about how you've been divinely promised the land of Canaan? What could more attractive than to conceive your own return from exile as part of a providential design first carried about by the patriarch of your people?

I'm teaching an online version of "Intro to the Hebrew Bible" this semester, first time I've ever done it, and we started with the Babylonian Exile. Probably one of the best moves I've made teaching that material...everything unfolds so well if you start there.
 
I'm teaching an online version of "Intro to the Hebrew Bible" this semester, first time I've ever done it, and we started with the Babylonian Exile. Probably one of the best moves I've made teaching that material...everything unfolds so well if you start there.
cannot underestimate the exile to the Jewish story. Heck, that is the defining event of the OT.
 
That's in large part, Enn's point. He writes that the Bible is ancient(most be viewed as such),diverse(many writers over a long period of time and lots of contradictions - I mean we have 2 versions of the 10 commandments), and ambiguous. It's not a rule book to be downloaded but an invitation to know the divine in the world we live in today relative to our place in it.
Two creation stories as well, and the in the first one, man and woman are created at the same time.
 
That's in large part, Enn's point. He writes that the Bible is ancient(most be viewed as such),diverse(many writers over a long period of time and lots of contradictions - I mean we have 2 versions of the 10 commandments), and ambiguous. It's not a rule book to be downloaded but an invitation to know the divine in the world we live in today relative to our place in it.

Well, I'd contend that that's the seminarian coming out in Enns--he's too well-educated to keep historicism completely at bay, so he allows for the recession of "the divine" further into the text. In that sense, he never gets out from under what James Kugel identifies as the main assumptions of biblical interpretation: the text is cryptic; the text is divinely-inspired; the text is non-contradictory [Enns fudges here]; the text is relevant. Or, as Benjamin Sommer puts it, the text is presumed to be "supercharged with meaning."
 
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