Transfers from UNC to other teams (Rant)

[SnoopRob]

[...] but what I don't like is folks using data on how well they do, or don't do, at their new schools as weapons against our coaching staff.

We are in a season where we are evaluating Hubert to determine if he's the right fit for the future of the program. One part of that is that we had a great deal of players leave the program last year, many of them unhappy with how they were used in CH.

For better or worse, how those players do in their new programs is part of how Hubert will be evaluated. If players who underperformed expectations in CH go elsewhere and perform much more closely to those expectations, those are data points concerning how to evaluate our coach, just as it is if they go elsewhere and perform similarly to how they performed here (or perhaps worse than they performed here).

I don't really care for the breathless updates after every game, but it's silly to think that part of how we evaluate Hubert isn't player retention and how those players perform elsewhere.

 

[Bigs23]

We are in a season where we are evaluating Hubert to determine if he's the right fit for the future of the program. One part of that is that we had a great deal of players leave the program last year, many of them unhappy with how they were used in CH.

For better or worse, how those players do in their new programs is part of how Hubert will be evaluated. If players who underperformed expectations in CH go elsewhere and perform much more closely to those expectations, those are data points concerning how to evaluate our coach, just as it is if they go elsewhere and perform similarly to how they performed here (or perhaps worse than they performed here).

I don't really care for the breathless updates after every game, but it's silly to think that part of how we evaluate Hubert isn't player retention and how those players perform elsewhere.

Have any of Hubert’s defectors fared significantly better after leaving? Garcia maybe?

 

[C-Money]

I do admit it would suck to see Michigan and St John's have a better season than UNC with Cadeau and Jackson playing for them now.

 

[Centerpiece]

I do admit it woukd suck to see Michigan and St John's have a better season than UNC with Cadeau and Jackson playing for them now.

'Tis true... but I don't think either team will have "a better season" than they did last year. Johnnies were 31-5; 18-2 in conference. Michigan was 27-10; 14-6. (Although Michigan does stand a chance to finish better than that; but for the Johnnies to finish better, they'd have to win the Natty)

Now, could one or both finish "better" than UNC this year? Perhaps... but the fact remains UNC (with Cadeau and Jackson) finished 23-14; 13-7. But I think UNC is light years better this season with Wilson and Co. than they were last year with Cadeau and Jackson and I think we stand a great chance of finishing with a better record than last year's.

 

[Heelsandeers]

I do admit it woukd suck to see Michigan and St John's have a better season than UNC with Cadeau and Jackson playing for them now.

Why does that matter? Like at all

 

[C-Money]

Why does that matter? Like at all

Because they used to play for UNC.

 

[Heelsandeers]

'Tis true... but I don't think either team will have "a better season" than they did last year. Johnnies were 31-5; 18-2 in conference. Michigan was 27-10; 14-6. (Although Michigan does stand a chance to finish better than that; but for the Johnnies to finish better, they'd have to win the Natty)

Michigan looking better than last season. Considerably so imo

I mean, they will have Morzez Johnon or Aday Mara off the bench

SJU feels a little overrated to me. Don't think they're top 5

 

[Icky Mettle]

Have any of Hubert’s defectors fared significantly better after leaving? Garcia maybe?

Garcia put up some good numbers, but he played on some bad teams. And his sample size at UNC was so small.

 

[Heelsandeers]

Have to laugh at Ian playing only 15 mins in a game where he didn't miss a shot

I can only imagine if that was Hubert last season

 

[4thgenheel]

Garcia put up some good numbers, but he played on some bad teams. And his sample size at UNC was so small.

garcia never really changed. good but not great high usage low efficiency guy.

 

[akillesheel]

garcia never really changed. good but not great high usage low efficiency guy.

not quite true. he was a much better midrange + around-the-rim scorer after UNC than at UNC, he was 42% on 2-point attempts at UNC and at or above 50% all three years at minny. His eFG% was 46 at UNC and 50, 52, and 53 at Minny, which isn't a huge improvement but is significant, and it's more notable that he never quite matched his outside shooting numbers at UNC in that time.

also became a significantly if not hugely better all-around player. 1.3 assists/40 at UNC, 2+ every year at Minny. blocks/40 stayed the same or improved while fouls/40 went down. the only place he declined was in rebounding.

 

[Centerpiece]

Michigan looking better than last season. Considerably so imo

I mean, they will have Morzez Johnon or Aday Mara off the bench

SJU feels a little overrated to me. Don't think they're top 5

Agree. Of the 2, Mich. would seem to have a better chance of finishing better than 27-10 moreso than Johnny finishing better than 32-5

 

[Bigs23]

not quite true. he was a much better midrange + around-the-rim scorer after UNC than at UNC, he was 42% on 2-point attempts at UNC and at or above 50% all three years at minny. His eFG% was 46 at UNC and 50, 52, and 53 at Minny, which isn't a huge improvement but is significant, and it's more notable that he never quite matched his outside shooting numbers at UNC in that time.

also became a significantly if not hugely better all-around player. 1.3 assists/40 at UNC, 2+ every year at Minny. blocks/40 stayed the same or improved while fouls/40 went down. the only place he declined was in rebounding.

So in reality there’s not much to confirm that Hubert’s coaching has caused players to underperform.

 

[NYCBlueBlood]

Meh... I find the habit of using former players to take digs at HD annoying... but I reserve the right to still want to see good things happen for those players who gave it their all here, but decided ultimately this was not the right path for them going forward (or had it decided for them). And for me I'll pick and choose.

Love will always have a place in my heart for driving a stake through K's undead one in his last game on his home court.

Cadeau I felt gave us his all, but his skill set just never matched the game plan HD wanted to put on the court... hard to hold it against him. I hope he does well at Michigan.

Jackson wanted to hunt his shot and play D when the mood struck... I'm good with him moving on. 15 points in 15 minutes with 3 fouls and 2 TOs sounds about right for him...

 

[akillesheel]

So in reality there’s not much to confirm that Hubert’s coaching has caused players to underperform.

meh. people said something like this when Mack's highly recruited transfers out failed to do anything at their next stops... i think it's just as likely that Mack and staff irreparably ruined at least a few of those players as it is that the professional evaluators missed on that many guys. could be a similar deal here.

hubert has had plenty of players transfer out and then be better, though - styles, nickel, love, and you could argue walton. some of that, especially in the first two cases, is certainly just down to those players maturing, but it's an open discussion how much was that and how much was another coach unlocking them. and even then, one could just as easily argue that hubert prepared them to be good and it just wasn't able to manifest before they left UNC. you can use the results to confirm any priors you might have.

 

[4thgenheel]

not quite true. he was a much better midrange + around-the-rim scorer after UNC than at UNC, he was 42% on 2-point attempts at UNC and at or above 50% all three years at minny. His eFG% was 46 at UNC and 50, 52, and 53 at Minny, which isn't a huge improvement but is significant, and it's more notable that he never quite matched his outside shooting numbers at UNC in that time.

also became a significantly if not hugely better all-around player. 1.3 assists/40 at UNC, 2+ every year at Minny. blocks/40 stayed the same or improved while fouls/40 went down. the only place he declined was in rebounding.

he likely would've gotten all of those UNC #s up a bit had he actually unpacked his bags and played more than 15 games.

 

[Peppers49]

Honestly I don’t think UNC has really been hurt significantly by guys transferring out to this point. Caleb Love is the one player I can think of that left and then became an incredible player for his new team, but that was a unique situation that ultimately worked out for the best for both sides.

Otherwise most of the other players have just been rotational pieces that were either replaceable or probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference if they stayed anyway. Still TBD on the guys that left after last season playing for new teams, obviously.

 

[Bigs23]

meh. people said something like this when Mack's highly recruited transfers out failed to do anything at their next stops... i think it's just as likely that Mack and staff irreparably ruined at least a few of those players as it is that the professional evaluators missed on that many guys. could be a similar deal here.

hubert has had plenty of players transfer out and then be better, though - styles, nickel, love, and you could argue walton. some of that, especially in the first two cases, is certainly just down to those players maturing, but it's an open discussion how much was that and how much was another coach unlocking them. and even then, one could just as easily argue that hubert prepared them to be good and it just wasn't able to manifest before they left UNC. you can use the results to confirm any priors you might have.

Ehh…None of those guys were significantly better. They got more minutes but were the same guy playing more minutes.

 

[Bigs23]

Honestly I don’t think UNC has really been hurt significantly by guys transferring out to this point. Caleb Love is the one player I can think of that left and then became an incredible player for his new team, but that was a unique situation that ultimately worked out for the best for both sides.

Otherwise most of the other players have just been rotational pieces that were either replaceable or probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference if they stayed anyway. Still TBD on the guys that left after last season playing for new teams, obviously.

Caleb is was the same Caleb at Zona.

 

[Peppers49]

Caleb is was the same Caleb at Zona.

Caleb was a CPOTY, 2x first team all conference, and 2x all-American at Zona.