Transfers from UNC to other teams (Rant)

Bigs23 said:
Ehh…None of those guys were significantly better. They got more minutes but were the same guy playing more minutes.
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Bigs23 said:
Caleb is was the same Caleb at Zona.
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Caleb's ORtg was 114+ both his years at Zona. He never cracked 103 at UNC. For reference, senior Joel Berry was at a 114 and Coby White in 2019 was 110. 103, on the other hand, is probably the worst we've seen from a UNC point guard since Larry Drew. Obviously an astronomical difference. He still had some Bad Caleb games and most of those were pretty high-profile but saying he was "the same" is just denying reality. A reality that, to be fair, most of us didn't see, because he was playing in Mountain/Pacific time when we'd gone to bed.

i'd love to see how any of the other guys I mentioned were "the same guy playing more minutes." from where I'm standing, nearly all improved their efficiency and rate-adjusted counting stats by non-negligible margins, but i'm open to being proven wrong.
 
I understand the perspective, even if I don't entirely agree with the OP, but is it really that hard to avoid discussions of how former UNC players are doing elsewhere?
 
akillesheel said:
Caleb's ORtg was 114+ both his years at Zona. He never cracked 103 at UNC. For reference, senior Joel Berry was at a 114 and Coby White in 2019 was 110. 103, on the other hand, is probably the worst we've seen from a UNC point guard since Larry Drew. Obviously an astronomical difference. He still had some Bad Caleb games and most of those were pretty high-profile but saying he was "the same" is just denying reality. A reality that, to be fair, most of us didn't see, because he was playing in Mountain/Pacific time when we'd gone to bed.

i'd love to see how any of the other guys I mentioned were "the same guy playing more minutes." from where I'm standing, nearly all improved their efficiency and rate-adjusted counting stats by non-negligible margins, but i'm open to being proven wrong.
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There’s the expectation that players will improve in their early 20’s.

Caleb and RJ didn’t mix well. It seems they both got better their first year apart and leveled off again in their 5th seasons.

What other players do you believe made big jumps?
 
Bigs23 said:
There’s the expectation that players will improve in their early 20’s.

Caleb and RJ didn’t mix well. It seems they both got better their first year apart and leveled off again in their 5th seasons.

What other players do you believe made big jumps?
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Throughout UNC’s history, there haven’t been many players who transferred away and did much better at major programs or programs in major conferences. The only ones who come to mind (apart from Love) were Clifford Rozier (Louisville) and Larry Davis (South Carolina). Perhaps Matt Brust (St. John’s), but he may have followed the same trajectory had he stayed at UNC. He steadily improved each year and was a solid player averaging low-double figure scoring during his senior year.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Throughout UNC’s history, there haven’t been many players who transferred away and did much better at major programs or programs in major conferences. The only ones who come to mind (apart from Love) were Clifford Rozier (Louisville) and Larry Davis (South Carolina). Perhaps Matt Brust (St. John’s), but he may have followed the same trajectory had he stayed at UNC. He steadily improved each year and was a solid player averaging low-double figure scoring during his senior year.
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Brownlee was another one. Kessler.

I don’t believe there’s viable evidence supporting the idea that Hubert’s coaching hampered player development. Sure some guys better after they left as they should have.
 
Bigs23 said:
Brownlee was another one. Kessler.

I don’t believe there’s viable evidence supporting the idea that Hubert’s coaching hampered player development. Sure some guys better after they left as they should have.
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Oh yeah. Can’t believe I forgot Kessler.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Oh yeah. Can’t believe I forgot Kessler.
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Kessler was a weird one. He was stuck behind older players in the rotation and his freshman season was during Covid so he probably didn’t get the best first impression of college life at UNC in general (if I’m remembering correctly I think he had to go through 2 different stints in isolation protocol). Add in his family seemingly trying to push him to leave + a coaching change and it’s not that surprising that he transferred.

That was another instance where I think it worked out for both sides. Kessler got to be the focal point of the front court at Auburn, and the Manek/Bacot combo worked out well for UNC.
 
Peppers49 said:
Kessler was a weird one. He was stuck behind older players in the rotation and his freshman season was during Covid so he probably didn’t get the best first impression of college life at UNC in general (if I’m remembering correctly I think he had to go through 2 different stints in isolation protocol). Add in his family seemingly trying to push him to leave + a coaching change and it’s not that surprising that he transferred.

That was another instance where I think it worked out for both sides. Kessler got to be the focal point of the front court at Auburn, and the Manek/Bacot combo worked out well for UNC.
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Kessler was ruled out for the season today.
 
Bigs23 said:
Have any of Hubert’s defectors fared significantly better after leaving? Garcia maybe?
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Of the ones Hubert had any real control over (e.g. not Kessler), I don't think any have gone on to do things that would be a major black mark on his record. Most of them were pretty much the same players after they left as they were at Carolina, accounting for normal development as players age/gain college experience.

I do think that Cadeau & Jackson, though, represent a potentially different case as they (a) were very highly rated coming out of HS, (b) were Hubert recruits, (c) didn't live up to expectations, and (d) chose to go elsewhere to try to fulfill their potential. If they are more successful at their new locations, it will look bad for Hubert that they didn't/didn't feel like they could do that in Chapel Hill.
 
SnoopRob said:
Of the ones Hubert had any real control over (e.g. not Kessler), I don't think any have gone on to do things that would be a major black mark on his record. Most of them were pretty much the same players after they left as they were at Carolina, accounting for normal development as players age/gain college experience.

I do think that Cadeau & Jackson, though, represent a potentially different case as they (a) were very highly rated coming out of HS, (b) were Hubert recruits, (c) didn't live up to expectations, and (d) chose to go elsewhere to try to fulfill their potential. If they are more successful at their new locations, it will look bad for Hubert that they didn't/didn't feel like they could do that in Chapel Hill.
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There’s just so much player movement now I don’t know how much any of that is going to matter.
 
Bigs23 said:
There’s the expectation that players will improve in their early 20’s.

Caleb and RJ didn’t mix well. It seems they both got better their first year apart and leveled off again in their 5th seasons.

What other players do you believe made big jumps?
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well, yeah, it's easy to write off any actual answers to your question if you can just brush them all off as "players improving in their 20s." which, by the way, is not the same thing as "the same player with more minutes."

caleb love was the same player for 3 straight years at UNC with some three-point shooting variance, went to Arizona and took a larry drew-to-joel berry-sized jump, and you write that off as natural improvement that there just happened to be no evidence of when he was in Chapel Hill. the difference between him and RJ was that RJ exploded as a 4th-year and then regressed as a 5th year (to near team-killing levels for most of the season, I might add), while Love exploded as a 4th year and then mostly maintained that level as a 5th year, so the theory that they were just better off apart doesn't really hold.

does a player need to leave UNC and be the NPOY before you admit that something changed for them other than age?
 
akillesheel said:
well, yeah, it's easy to write off any actual answers to your question if you can just brush them all off as "players improving in their 20s." which, by the way, is not the same thing as "the same player with more minutes."

caleb love was the same player for 3 straight years at UNC with some three-point shooting variance, went to Arizona and took a larry drew-to-joel berry-sized jump, and you write that off as natural improvement that there just happened to be no evidence of when he was in Chapel Hill. the difference between him and RJ was that RJ exploded as a 4th-year and then regressed as a 5th year (to near team-killing levels for most of the season, I might add), while Love exploded as a 4th year and then mostly maintained that level as a 5th year, so the theory that they were just better off apart doesn't really hold.

does a player need to leave UNC and be the NPOY before you admit that something changed for them other than age?
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He did better at ARZ. That doesn’t mean Hubert hampered him.
 
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