Trump Admin takes over D.C. Policing | Multiple people shot in DC, including two National Guardsman

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ZenMode said:
Maybe it's time to bring the political temperature down?
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I agree 100% . Trump is responsible for hyping the "political" temperature so it would be great if he made a major prime time speech in the Oval Office and tonight tell his posse that following and lawful order
 
ZenMode said:
Tom Hardy Bait GIF
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It's very funny that you would see that as bait. I can't imagine that anyone who is serious about turning down the temperature of political discourse in our country would start with anyone other than Trump (and his admin), which is both the most powerful force in American politics and the most flagrant offender of whatever discourse norms you want to talk about.
 
rodoheel said:
It's very funny that you would see that as bait. I can't imagine that anyone who is serious about turning down the temperature of political discourse in our country would start with anyone other than Trump (and his admin), which is both the most powerful force in American politics and the most flagrant offender of whatever discourse norms you want to talk about.
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Do you believe it's only the Trump admin that is keeping the temperature high?
 
ZenMode said:
Do you believe it's only the Trump admin that is keeping the temperature high?
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Only? No, absolutely not. Biggest factor? Yes, absolutely. Trump and his movement have openly and unapologetically pushed us towards a less civil, "fuck your feelings" discourse. Trump constantly and openly makes over-the-top, temperature-raising statements that would be unthinkable from any other White House in history, and he often encourages or coerces his supporters and political allies to do the same.

The other biggest factor besides Trump is not really any specific person; it's the architecture and incentives of the modern (mostly online) discourse that pushes people towards more extreme and more shocking takes to get attention. Only collective action by society, probably including through government regulation, is going to change things in that regard. But Trump's admin is openly hostile to any sort of regulation, especially anything that would regulate online discourse, so, well, we're back where we started with who the biggest problem is.
 
ZenMode said:
Do you believe it's only the Trump admin that is keeping the temperature high?
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I believe it's a lot like a ribeye steak on fire on a gas grill. The fat of the ribeye itself is indeed contributing to the fire but 95% of the cause is the propane burner raging beneath it. In case you were curious, the Trump administration is the propane burner in the analogy.
 
ZenMode said:
Do you believe it's only the Trump admin that is keeping the temperature high?
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I think the leadership on the Democratic side has been almost universally trying to turn down the temperature. I think you see some of that from the Republican leadership side but not Trump.

The nut jobs on Twitter and to a lesser extent traditional media are fanning the flames from both sides and people are eating it up on both sides.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think the leadership on the Democratic side has been almost universally trying to turn down the temperature. I think you see some of that from the Republican leadership side but not Trump.

The nut jobs on Twitter and to a lesser extent traditional media are fanning the flames from both sides and people are eating it up on both sides.
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I'd agree more if 6 of them didn't just blatantly and intentionally undermine the President by telling troops they can not follow orders if they believe they are illegal or unconstitutional.

I say believe because, with a few exceptions, no individual member of the military is able to accurately determine what is or isn't legal/constitutional.

I also believe that message contributed to what happened yesterday.
 
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ZenMode said:
I'd agree more if 6 of them didn't just blatantly and intentionally undermine the President by telling troops they can not follow orders if they believe they are illegal or unconstitutional.
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I just watched the video again to check. Admittedly no sound, just read the text. They did not say what you say they said.

Found a transcript:


“We want to speak directly to members of the military and the intelligence community, who take risks every day to keep Americans safe. We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk. This administration is pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens.

“Like us, you all swore an oath to protect and defend this Constitution. Right now, the threats to our constitution aren’t just coming from abroad, but from right here at home. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders.

“No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. We know this is hard and that it’s a difficult time to be a public servant, but whether you are serving in the CIA, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, your vigilance is critical. And know that we have your back, because now, more than ever, the American people need you. We need you to stand up for our laws, our Constitution, and who we are as Americans. Don’t give up the ship.”
 
ZenMode said:
I'd agree more if 6 of them didn't just blatantly and intentionally undermine the President by telling troops they can not follow orders if they believe they are illegal or unconstitutional.

I say believe because, with a few exceptions, no individual member of the military is able to accurately determine what is or isn't legal/constitutional.

I also believe that message contributed to what happened yesterday.
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So you think an Afghan national committed an attack on members of the military because retired members of the military put out a video telling soldiers the same thing they are taught on day one in boot camp? Interesting. Do you agree with Trump that those members of congress should be executed?
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
I just watched the video again to check. Admittedly no sound, just read the text. They did not say what you say they said.

Found a transcript:


“We want to speak directly to members of the military and the intelligence community, who take risks every day to keep Americans safe. We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk. This administration is pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens.

“Like us, you all swore an oath to protect and defend this Constitution. Right now, the threats to our constitution aren’t just coming from abroad, but from right here at home. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders.

“No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. We know this is hard and that it’s a difficult time to be a public servant, but whether you are serving in the CIA, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, your vigilance is critical. And know that we have your back, because now, more than ever, the American people need you. We need you to stand up for our laws, our Constitution, and who we are as Americans. Don’t give up the ship.”
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The exact wording doesn't change the message and what I said still applies.
 
ZenMode said:
I'd agree more if 6 of them didn't just blatantly and intentionally undermine the President by telling troops they can not follow orders if they believe they are illegal or unconstitutional.
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I don't know if you ever served in the military, but what you are criticizing is the oath that every soldier has sworn to uphold for many, many years. I personally swore that oath that all six of those whom you condemn also swore.

So what I have to say to you is f*** you and f*** the horse you rode in on. And yes, I was specifically trained in Basic Training, as a Private, E-1, that I personally had the duty and responsibilty to judge for MYSELF whether an order was illegal or not. If you were not such an complete, total, and utter Trump fellator you would already know this.
 
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