Trump and animal testing

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heel79

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Looks like Trump administration is trying to stop animal testing in labs by defunding it. Not a very MAGA thing to do. I, without a deep dive, favor it as I just cannot stand seeing animals suffer. Thoughts? Mainly interested in the impact on research.
 
heel79 said:
Looks like Trump administration is trying to stop animal testing in labs by defunding it. Not a very MAGA thing to do. I, without a deep dive, favor it as I just cannot stand seeing animals suffer. Thoughts? Mainly interested in the impact on research.
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In another thread, they have possibly found a cure for Alzheimer’s by doing experiments on mice. Are you saying you would shut these experiments down? Same with cancer and other similar research that have the potential to cure horrible diseases and save human lives?
 
Its complicated and this is significantly simplified - but the goal is expand what can be understood with non-animal models as those can be upscaled in ways that animal models can't (if simply for for cost). The current overall steady state use of animal models is unlikely to change over the next many years.
 
I'm having less and less reason to not just oppose them because they are for it. If it didn't completely offend my sensibilities to do so, I probably would. I'd be about as accurate with considerably less waste of time. I do have the time to waste, though.
 
ChileG said:
In another thread, they have possibly found a cure for Alzheimer’s by doing experiments on mice. Are you saying you would shut these experiments down? Same with cancer and other similar research that have the potential to cure horrible diseases and save human lives?
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Thanks. I know it's complicated. I care less about a mouse than I do a dog. Mostly found it interesting this administration is taking this on.
 
heel79 said:
Thanks. I know it's complicated. I care less about a mouse than I do a dog. Mostly found it interesting this administration is taking this on.
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While not totally a crackpot idea, it's enough of one at this time to appeal to his iconoclastic side.
 
heel79 said:
Thanks. I know it's complicated. I care less about a mouse than I do a dog. Mostly found it interesting this administration is taking this on.
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Makes me wonder why. Trump has before talked about how stupid it is to save fish if it harms people in any way, which leads me to believe his administration taking this on has ulterior motives that have nothing to do with helping animals or American citizens.
 
ChileG said:
Makes me wonder why. Trump has before talked about how stupid it is to save fish if it harms people in any way, which leads me to believe his administration taking this on has ulterior motives that have nothing to do with helping animals or American citizens.
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Your answer was the post before yours.

wmheel1287 said:
This is a big push by the AI folks to force labs to use AI modeling instead of clinical trials. There's your reasoning for this administration.
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heel79 said:
Is that a bad thing?
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I don’t know, but is Trump listening to people who stand to make money (and he in turn makes investments to get his cut) or is he listening to scientists who are conducting the studies when he made this decision? A lot of unanswered questions.
 
Since I assume AI is not yet self programming, I have to wonder if AI would have made any of of these leaps.


  • Pacemaker: Wilson Greatbatch accidentally created a device that mimicked heartbeats while trying to build a heart rhythm recorder, leading to smaller, implantable pacemakers.
  • X-rays: Wilhelm Roentgen noticed photographic plates glowing in a drawer with uranium salts, discovering invisible rays that could pass through objects.
  • Warfarin: A farmer's cows' unexplained bleeding led biochemist Karl Paul Link to discover this anticoagulant.
  • Smallpox Vaccine: Edward Jenner noticed milkmaids with cowpox didn't get smallpox, prompting his vaccination experiments.

Scientific & Everyday Innovations
  • Microwave Oven: Percy Spencer noticed a chocolate bar melted in his pocket while working with radar technology.
  • Saccharin (Artificial Sweetener): Constantin Fahlberg noticed a sweet taste on his hands after working with coal tar derivatives.
  • Vulcanized Rubber: Charles Goodyear accidentally dropped rubber mixed with sulfur onto a hot stove.
  • Teflon: Roy Plunkett discovered the non-stick polymer when a gas cylinder's contents solidified unexpectedly.
  • Super Glue (Cyanoacrylate): Harry Coover discovered its adhesive properties when it unexpectedly bonded items during an experiment.
  • Velcro: George de Mestral invented it after noticing burrs sticking to his dog's fur.

Key Takeaway
These discoveries highlight the role of serendipity, where luck, curiosity, and the ability to recognize an unexpected outcome are crucial for scientific advancement, often leading to world-changing products
 
To the Alzheimer's example... That paper demonstrates the efficacy of a small molecule (drug) P7C3-A20 as tested in animals. Would it beneficial to use AI-enhanced cheminformatics (e.g., QSAR) to examine and predict potential improved outcomes from 10,000 similar drugs and see if something might improve the results found with P7C3-A20. Organ on a chip and organoid models will additionally be used to expand scale.

We will increasingly see AI employed to scale these examinations but we will not replace animal models.

edit: If we agree that 10,000 is better than 1 of a few then we'd also likely agree that 10 trillion is better than 10,000 - the AI overlords will get a win.
 
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