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Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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ChapelHillSooner said:
"Conservatives tend to favor institutions and practices that enhance social order and historical continuity."

Please explain how MAGAs are favoring institutions or historical continuity? They are tearing institutions apart and setting fire to our constitutional order.
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Yes, this is another way that MAGA is divorced from what American conservatism has analytically presented itself as. But in the global conservative tradition it's perfectly consistent. MAGA prizes things that they see as traditionally part of their version of cultural "American values" - gender roles, Christianity, lack of regulation, gun ownership, white Americans (and in some cases white male Americans) having firm control of cultural and political institutions, etc. - and they want to get back to that. And keep in mind that MAGA is really a cultural movement as much of a political one; its members are frustrated and motivated by perceived cultural displacement as much (and for many of them, likely more) as by political issues.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I don't know about that. Even Trump made comments a few weeks back that there may be exceptions for radicals and crazies.

I suspect that a few of those guys will go down like the pizza guy or worse and it will hurt Trump.
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Didn’t the pizza guy get shot and killed by police a few weeks ago?
 
Paine said:
It doesn’t say that they tend to favor institutions in the abstract. It says they tend to favor institutions and practices that enhance social order and historical continuity.

Social order is simply referring to a society that is undergirded by organizing social structures and institutions. These don’t have to be the institutions that have been core to the American liberal project since the New Deal. Conservatives have long derided even these meager programs.

Appeals to these types of institutions and constitutions are more inherent to liberalism rather than conservatism. The big issues with these terms in American political life is that there are a ton of “conservatives” who are liberals by any normal political definition. One thing the Trump era has brought us is a realigning of American political terms along these more traditional lines: socialists/social democrats, liberals, and conservatives.

The institutions and social structures that MAGA relies on are at a much more base level than constitutions and the liberal norms. The nuclear family, patriarchy, traditional religion, etc. Conservatism has been steeped in these principles since its inception.

Think about it this way: Edmund Burke surely thought he was favoring institutions and practices that enhanced social order and historical continuity when he opposed the French Revolution.

There are some that think conservatism started with Buckley, but I think that’s hogwash honestly.
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I think you can pretty clearly trace western political conservatism back as far as, at least, the French Revolution and those who wanted to maintain (and later, return to) the Ancien Regime or, at least, some form of absolute monarchy. But I also think that Buckley could be credited with the creation of a peculiar strain of "modern American conservatism" (or perhaps you could say "liberal conservatism" or "constitutional conservatism" to your point) that still preached the value of traditional institutions but did so in the context of the liberal political framework of the constitution. In other words, he essentially cast the Constitution (which was certainly not a conservative document at the time of its drafting) as the framework for the protection of classic conservative values.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
And I am not buying the Autism angle. While people with Autism often have trouble reading others, their faces don't lie because it is all subconscious.
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I'm not buying the autism bullshit either, but autistic people don't always use the same facial expressions as other people. Making them hard to read.

But that's not at all what is going on here.
 
rodoheel said:
I think you can pretty clearly trace western political conservatism back as far as, at least, the French Revolution and those who wanted to maintain (and later, return to) the Ancien Regime or, at least, some form of absolute monarchy. But I also think that Buckley could be credited with the creation of a peculiar strain of "modern American conservatism" (or perhaps you could say "liberal conservatism" or "constitutional conservatism" to your point) that still preached the value of traditional institutions but did so in the context of the liberal political framework of the constitution. In other words, he essentially cast the Constitution (which was certainly not a conservative document at the time of its drafting) as the framework for the protection of classic conservative values.
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Oh yes, Buckley pioneered his own strain of conservatism without a doubt. I take issue with people who seem to think he somehow invented the conservative ideology though, which I’ve seen in some discussions lately (not here). It often seems to come from people who ID as conservatives and want to distance themselves from the right-wing populism of Trump and others. They should just call themselves liberals at this point.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Executive order abuse has gotten totally out of control. Obama did it too much but the practice that is in place now is totally insane. Trump just signing things into effect is insanity.
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The Emancipation Proclamation was probably the biggest executive overreach in US history, but we are pretty OK with it now.
 
Calheel said:
The Emancipation Proclamation was probably the biggest executive overreach in US history, but we are pretty OK with it now.
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That fits nicely in the broad category of war powers/state of emergency executive overreach, which I agree is necessary, but rife for abuse. One of the reasons all the emergencies Trump declared yesterday concern me.
 
DiehardHeelFan said:

Trump's mass deportation plan could drain more than $20 billion a year from Social Security​

www.businessinsider.com

Trump's mass deportation plan could drain more than $20 billion a year from Social Security

President Donald Trump's mass deportation plans could have a significant economic side effect: draining Social Security funding.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
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That’s not good. I think Trump was hoping to raid SS so he and his uber-rich buddies could get another tax break. Now where will he get those funds from? I suppose we will just add it to the deficit.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Executive order abuse has gotten totally out of control. Obama did it too much but the practice that is in place now is totally insane. Trump just signing things into effect is insanity.
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Obama signed the fewest executive orders per days in office compared to any president who came after Grover Cleveland, who left office in 1897.
 
Paine said:
There are some that think conservatism started with Buckley, but I think that’s hogwash honestly.
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“I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.”
— William F. Buckley, National Review Mission Statement, November 19, 1955

“A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it.”
― William F. Buckley
 
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