Trump / Musk (other than DOGE) Omnibus Thread

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StrangePackage said:
The term they prefer is neofeudalism.
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Is that from Thiel’s theory work? I’ll admit I can’t bring myself to read the stuff he puts out. Seems similar to the dribble that Yarvin espouses. IIRC, he is a big influence on Thiel.

ETA: just saw your edit re: Yarvin.
 
Paine said:
Is that from Thiel’s theory work? I’ll admit I can’t bring myself to read the stuff he puts out. Seems similar to the dribble that Yarvin espouses. IIRC, he is a big influence on Thiel.

ETA: just saw your edit re: Yarvin.
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Yarvin is a fucking moron, but he definitely calls for techno-feudalism with a CEO king and the right of exit for his subjects.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think this is inaccurate at least according to none other than Benito Mussolini: “The Fascist State directs and controls the entrepreneurs, whether it be in our fisheries or in our heavy industry in the Val d'Aosta. There the State actually owns the mines and carries on transport, for the railways are state property. So are many of the factories… We term it state intervention… If anything fails to work properly, the State intervenes.”

In other words, the state gives businesses wide latitude until the businesses mess up and then the state takes over. In any case, the state is supreme over the business interests.

The technical term of corporations over the state is a corporatocracy. You really rarely see that at a national level. Some examples might be things like the British East India company or the Hudson Bay company. Some folks might call Saudi Arabia corporatocracy. Disney world has a bit of a corporatocracy at least at the local level.
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This is different from what Musk is going how exactly?

Take your corporatocracy bullshit elsewhere. You have no idea what you're talking about. The idea that the British East India company was dominating the British crown is laughable. You're a mailman, Cliff. You don't know about the world more broadly than that.
 
Paine said:
That’s fair. Ultimately, fascist is a term that has a very specific historical context that doesn’t really fit well to our current circumstances. The other piece being fascism generally requires a strong labor movement in opposition in order to frame its program.

I just think it’s the closest thing we have to a working term for Musk, Thiel, etc.
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1. Fascism does not require a strong labor movement in opposition. Sometimes the labor movement is the fascism. And the fascists in Central America sure as hell didn't need labor movements to define them as fascists. The raping and pillaging of indigenous peoples is sufficient.

2. What yellowjacket said was silly. Nothing he wrote contradicted your point, so even if he wasn't full of shit, he'd still be wrong.
 
superrific said:
1. Fascism does not require a strong labor movement in opposition. Sometimes the labor movement is the fascism. And the fascists in Central America sure as hell didn't need labor movements to define them as fascists. The raping and pillaging of indigenous peoples is sufficient.

2. What yellowjacket said was silly. Nothing he wrote contradicted your point, so even if he wasn't full of shit, he'd still be wrong.
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This is all getting into the contemporary debates about historical fascism (some believe it should just be applied to the post-WWI movements) vs. just using it as a political signifier. I think there is merit to both arguments, and I don’t really fall fully on either side.

As I say, fascist is still a useful descriptor for the type of politics these cretins pine for, even if it doesn’t meet the technical definition of historical fascism. Overuse of it is dangerous though as it loses all significance.
 
Hey Mexico, if you think that appeasing Trump is going to get you what you want, I'd ask you to study the history of Europe in the 1930s.

He's pausing it for one month? He isn't going to stop trying to fuck with you. You have an opportunity to smash him in the face. Coordinate with Canada and Europe.

Also, fucking stock market. Anyone who thinks it's "efficient" has hopefully been completely disabused of that notion.
 
I'd also point out that we are literally two weeks into this regime change. It is a useful two weeks, but there are still a lot of unknowns right now. It's useful to began discussing terminology, but we don't yet know how far Musk, Trump, et. al. plan to take things.
 
Paine said:
This is all getting into the contemporary debates about historical fascism (some believe it should just be applied to the post-WWI movements) vs. just using it as a political signifier. I think there is merit to both arguments, and I don’t really fall fully on either side.

As I say, fascist is still a useful descriptor for the type of politics these cretins pine for, even if it doesn’t meet the technical definition of historical fascism. Overuse of it is dangerous though as it loses all significance.
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Correct. I do not think it is being overused when applied to what is happening.

I think those debates about historical fascism are silly. Nothing is ever perfectly alike. The main differentiator these days is the ability to flood the zone like never before. If zone flooding had been possible in the 1930s and 1940s, I imagine there might have been more of it. I mean, they did flood the zone to some degree, but obviously the ability was limited.

If we want to say that Musk and Hitler aren't doing exactly the same thing, well of course. Neither were Stalin and Mao. That Musk and his people use "imperial CEO" instead of "Fuhrer" doesn't really make that much difference.
 
1moretimeagain said:
New Under Secretary at the State Department
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"Mr Beattie, did you say that 'competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work'?"
"Senator, I'm focused on the future."
"I'll ask again: Mr Beattie, did you say that 'competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work'?"
"Anonymous smears."
"I have the tweet right here! Mr Beattie, did you not say that 'competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work'?"
"I resent your characterization of my words. My account was hacked."
 
superrific said:
Correct. I do not think it is being overused when applied to what is happening.

I think those debates about historical fascism are silly. Nothing is ever perfectly alike. The main differentiator these days is the ability to flood the zone like never before. If zone flooding had been possible in the 1930s and 1940s, I imagine there might have been more of it. I mean, they did flood the zone to some degree, but obviously the ability was limited.

If we want to say that Musk and Hitler aren't doing exactly the same thing, well of course. Neither were Stalin and Mao. That Musk and his people use "imperial CEO" instead of "Fuhrer" doesn't really make that much difference.
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I tend to agree with you, but I think reasonable people will disagree about it.
 


Trump Admin is supposed to try to stop firearms being shipped into Mexico as part of this short-term reprieve. I find it hard to believe they will do anything even performative that looks like a crack down on gun sales.
 
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