Trump / Musk (other than DOGE) Omnibus Thread

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superrific said:
Which claim? That the standard of living has fallen, or that tariffs caused whatever happened over those 44 years? On the first:

A Comparison of Living Standards across the United States of America [the standard of living in all states increased from 1999 to 2015]
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I was meaning the former about our standard of living. I know that tariffs aren't the cause of American economic success after WW2.

That is an interesting paper, but I would like to go back farther, maybe even back to an even 50 years. That way we'd get a good look at the effects of offshoring that started in the 1980/90s.

My hunch is that - across the board - our standard of living has not fallen over the last 50 or so years. But it would be interesting to see that investigated from a variety of perspectives.
 
SnoopRob said:
I was meaning the former about our standard of living. I know that tariffs aren't the cause of American economic success after WW2.

That is an interesting paper, but I would like to go back farther, maybe even back to an even 50 years. That way we'd get a good look at the effects of offshoring that started in the 1980/90s.

My hunch is that - across the board - our standard of living has not fallen over the last 50 or so years. But it would be interesting to see that investigated from a variety of perspectives.
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Those papers do exist, 100% guaranteed.
 
One of the things I (mostly) appreciated in the old ZZLP was that the place gave me a small window into what MAGA folks believed. [Until that fell apart.]

I sort of wonder what MAGA folks actually believe about tariffs.
 
I'm sure they do address this but that same income level got hit with computers mostly knocking out telephone operators, curtailing bank tellers, cashiers and fast food jobs while heavy machinery and new tool technology increased productivity affect construction jobs greatly. That's a pretty big hit before offshoring.
 
How can these guys not know about the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and the economic disaster it led to happening?
 
farce© said:
Why? Many of the parts they need for assembly of their vehicles are imported, so the tariff will hit those components, increase their costs and make their cars non-competitive. It’s the same for US brands, they all import a ton of components. Even when the auto manufacturers buy components from US based companies such as Dana, Eaton, Borg Warner, Federal Mogul, etc., it doesn’t mean those parts were manufactured in the US. They will also get hit with the stupid Trump tariffs. He’s such a dumbass.
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Sarcasm
 
grubar said:
One of the things I (mostly) appreciated in the old ZZLP was that the place gave me a small window into what MAGA folks believed. [Until that fell apart.]

I sort of wonder what MAGA folks actually believe about tariffs.
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You have all the window you need. They believe what Trump tells them to believe, about tariffs and everything else.
 
grubar said:
One of the things I (mostly) appreciated in the old ZZLP was that the place gave me a small window into what MAGA folks believed. [Until that fell apart.]

I sort of wonder what MAGA folks actually believe about tariffs.
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As far as I can tall, I think Trump and certainly most of his supporters have a fundamental misunderstanding that tariffs are a tax that other countries pay to the US--not a tax that US companies pay in order to import products. Literally every soundbite Trump has around tariffs is centered around other countries paying but it's just a complete misrepresentation of what tariffs are.
 
altmin said:
Can't believe no one has tried printing their own money before to solve national debt! Thank God for Donald Trump and his brilliant plans.
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I mean, it has been discussed before to mint a $1 Trillion coin to avoid default when GOP was playing games about forcing a default, so not entirely an original idea.
 
CharmCityTiger said:
As far as I can tall, I think Trump and certainly most of his supporters have a fundamental misunderstanding that tariffs are a tax that other countries pay to the US--not a tax that US companies pay in order to import products. Literally every soundbite Trump has around tariffs is centered around other countries paying but it's just a complete misrepresentation of what tariffs are.
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It really doesn't matter who cuts the check. The consumer pays either way. And so do our exporters, when our trading partners retaliate.
 
altmin said:
Can't believe no one has tried printing their own money before to solve national debt! Thank God for Donald Trump and his brilliant plans.
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The most hilarious thing is that he's telling that to a bunch of crypto enthusiasts. The entire point of crypto, originally, was to create a currency that couldn't be printed out of thin air. It was supposed to be a modern day gold standard.

I mean, the thing is, Trump's not entirely wrong here. Crypto is a little bit more than scratching on a piece of paper, but not that much more. It's basically worthless database entries that people knowledgeable about computers and nothing else have deemed to be valuable because it's scarce. As if scarcity creates value.
 
grubar said:
One of the things I (mostly) appreciated in the old ZZLP was that the place gave me a small window into what MAGA folks believed. [Until that fell apart.]

I sort of wonder what MAGA folks actually believe about tariffs.
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You know.
 
SnoopRob said:
I'm sure they do, I just want a curated list to read. :LOL:
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I know, but I can't provide that. Most of my study of trade law/economics was about 15 years ago. I don't remember all the journal citations.

If you're interested in book-length treatments, you could check our Barry Eichengreen. His "Toward A New International Financial Architecture: A Practical Post-Asia Agenda" was, when I read it, one of the best books on the subject. It changed my thinking on the issue. Keep in mind, though, that the book is less exciting than the title.
 
superrific said:
I know, but I can't provide that. Most of my study of trade law/economics was about 15 years ago. I don't remember all the journal citations.

If you're interested in book-length treatments, you could check our Barry Eichengreen. His "Toward A New International Financial Architecture: A Practical Post-Asia Agenda" was, when I read it, one of the best books on the subject. It changed my thinking on the issue. Keep in mind, though, that the book is less exciting than the title.
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I wasn’t necessarily expecting you to provide me a list, I was more wishing for one. (And you never know when an expert might appear and already know something.)

I’ll look into Eichengreen’s book, though; thanks for the recommendation.
 
www.nytimes.com

Trump’s Low-Tax, High-Tariff Strategy Could Clash With Economic Realities

The former president’s efforts to compel companies to remain in the United States had limited success while he was in the White House.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Trump’s Low-Tax, High-Tariff Strategy Could Clash With Economic Realities​

The former president’s efforts to compel companies to remain in the United States had limited success while he was in the White House.

“could” clash with economic realities?
 
From the NYT link anove

“… The tax legislation that Mr. Trump enacted in 2017 helped bolster foreign investment by making America’s corporate tax rate more competitive with other countries. However, the tariffs that he imposed on imports from China have led to greater investment in Mexico, as companies have invested there to circumvent the levies and gain access to the U.S. market.

Mr. Trump seemed to acknowledge that development this week, saying he would enact tariffs of at least 100 percent on companies that manufactured cars and other products in Mexico and then exported them into the United States. …”

——
The article cobbles together an economic agenda from press releases of what speeches are supposed to be about and short snips of rambling speeches, but ignores the magical thinking bits about tariffs being cash paid to the government, eliminating the deficit, etc.
 
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