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Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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  • Politics 
ZenMode said:
Oh, we vaccinate LOTS of people without economy-crushing lockdowns, discharging our military personnel, forcing the closure of small businesses, disallowing people from gathering with family and friends, etc.

The science behind immunology is different from all of that.
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I think about those early days of the pandemic and I always think back to the utter lack of leadership we were receiving from the Trump administration. If he had just provided servant/sacrificial leadership we have gotten through it so much better. One day, years from now, his legacy will be the increased deaths due to his lack of leadership. Even the good that happened - getting the vaccines out in incredible time - was messed up because he didn’t tamp down the anti-vax stuff spewed by his followers.
 
lawtig02 said:
Oh?

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www.politico.com

Looks to me like a bunch of people voted for Trump despite thinking he committed serious crimes. Congrats, I guess. Doesn’t make you any more qualified to carry a law license.
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This is what is so disturbing to me. I think many, if not most, absolutely believe he did it and meant do it and they are ok with it. And, I know that if they are ok with that then it is not too much of a stretch to believe the even worse things they will be ok with him doing/leading/causing.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Define what it means to be “Woke.”
Y, it’s
I want to set the parameters of how ignorant you truly are before I waste time trying to engage with you.
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Sorry I missed this earlier. You and everyone here knows exactly what is meant by “woke” circa 2024. I don’t want to engage in some academic argument concerning the origins of the term by AAs in the 1920s. Today, the term reflects the never ending virtue signaling of people on the left who want to impress others on the left: Announcement of pronouns; land acknowledgements; terms such as birthing people; men can menstruate and give birth; yards signs proclaiming liberal slogans; pretending an in tact 6 foot two dude in a girls bathing suit is a woman; a guy dressed up as Audrey Hepburn selling Bud Light during a football game; Pelosi and Schumer kneeling in the Capital in African dress; and Latinx. Woke is trying to prove that you are sufficiently and appropriately “correct” on all the latest social and cultural issues notwithstanding common sense. Bill Maher says that this “stupid shit” causes people too vote for Trump even if they don’t particularly like him.

Even the Dems recognize that their failure to “talk like normal people” is hurting them with working class voters. AOC even removed her pronoun announcements from her social media accounts.
 
TitanNC said:
This is what is so disturbing to me. I think many, if not most, absolutely believe he did it and meant do it and they are ok with it. And, I know that if they are ok with that then it is not too much of a stretch to believe the even worse things they will be ok with him doing/leading/causing.
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The great majority of white Southern voters were OK with legalized segregation and Jim Crow for generations, and proved it by voting to support the politicians who upheld it over and over again. Defending racial segregation and Jim Crow was a cornerstone of Southern politics from the end of Reconstruction through the 1960s. That is only one example of a clear majority of American voters in at least one section of the country supporting terrible, inhumane, awful policies that clearly harmed other people - and yet the great majority of voters did it anyway, and for decades.

The notion that if a majority of voters support or oppose something that it automatically justifies or validates whatever they support or oppose is simply false. The "people" are not always right, morally or legally, in many cases. So the argument that just because about half the country wishes to believe that the J6 insurrectionists didn't do anything treasonous or wrong that they didn't is simply false, and that's a poor argument to use.
 
Ramrouser said:
Sorry I missed this earlier. You and everyone here knows exactly what is meant by “woke” circa 2024. I don’t want to engage in some academic argument concerning the origins of the term by AAs in the 1920s. Today, the term reflects the never ending virtue signaling of people on the left who want to impress others on the left: Announcement of pronouns; land acknowledgements; terms such as birthing people; men can menstruate and give birth; yards signs proclaiming liberal slogans; pretending an in tact 6 foot two dude in a girls bathing suit is a woman; a guy dressed up as Audrey Hepburn selling Bud Light during a football game; Pelosi and Schumer kneeling in the Capital in African dress; and Latinx. Woke is trying to prove that you are sufficiently and appropriately “correct” on all the latest social and cultural issues notwithstanding common sense. Bill Maher says that this “stupid shit” causes people too vote for Trump even if they don’t particularly like him.

Even the Dems recognize that their failure to “talk like normal people” is hurting them with working class voters. AOC even removed her pronoun announcements from her social media accounts.
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“…a view that there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to have policies that address them.”

- Ron DeSantis’s attorney in court when asked by a judge to define “woke.”
 
Mulberry Heel said:
The great majority of white Southern voters were OK with legalized segregation and Jim Crow for generations, and proved it by voting to support the politicians who upheld it over and over again. Defending racial segregation and Jim Crow was a cornerstone of Southern politics from the end of Reconstruction through the 1960s. That is only one example of a clear majority of American voters in at least one section of the country supporting terrible, inhumane, awful policies that clearly harmed other people - and yet the great majority of voters did it anyway, and for decades.

The notion that if a majority of voters support or oppose something that it automatically justifies or validates whatever they support or oppose is simply false. The "people" are not always right, morally or legally, in many cases. So the argument that just because about half the country wishes to believe that the J6 insurrectionists didn't do anything treasonous or wrong that they didn't is simply false, and that's a poor argument to use.
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There were some that were insurrectionists. No doubt. Most were not. Punish those that were. Quit punishing those that weren't.

You had to go back 60 years to find an example that made your point. A lot has happened in 60 years. I mean dem dare southerners done gone and elected themselves a negro senator and tried to elect a negro gooooovner.

Personally, I love the woke left and hope they get even woker. The more woker they get the more they turn off the fence sitters. just further highlights the batshit crazy side of the dem party. pretty soon, dems with common sense like jeff jackson will move to the pub side of the isle.
 
Ramrouser said:
Sorry I missed this earlier. You and everyone here knows exactly what is meant by “woke” circa 2024. I don’t want to engage in some academic argument concerning the origins of the term by AAs in the 1920s. Today, the term reflects the never ending virtue signaling of people on the left who want to impress others on the left: Announcement of pronouns; land acknowledgements; terms such as birthing people; men can menstruate and give birth; yards signs proclaiming liberal slogans; pretending an in tact 6 foot two dude in a girls bathing suit is a woman; a guy dressed up as Audrey Hepburn selling Bud Light during a football game; Pelosi and Schumer kneeling in the Capital in African dress; and Latinx. Woke is trying to prove that you are sufficiently and appropriately “correct” on all the latest social and cultural issues notwithstanding common sense. Bill Maher says that this “stupid shit” causes people too vote for Trump even if they don’t particularly like him.

Even the Dems recognize that their failure to “talk like normal people” is hurting them with working class voters. AOC even removed her pronoun announcements from her social media accounts.
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Okay, setting aside for a second that all of that stuff, much of it insignificant and unimportant, bothers you and your ilk so much that you guys shake with rage whenever you see it, and also setting aside the fact that you treat the term "woke" as a catch-all for anything you don't like, much like people use the word "gluten" to describe anything unhealthy, let's hone in on your one attempt to actually define it.

According to you, Woke is "Trying to prove that you are sufficiently and appropriately 'correct' on al the latest social and cultural issues notwithstanding common sense." And according to you, America has roundly rejected Wokeism because Bill Maher says so.

Then explain the poll conducted last year by USA Today/IPSOS that offered Americans two definitions of Woke: One negative and one positive.

Guess which one they chose as what it means to be woke?


A majority of Americans in a new poll have a positive association with the term “woke,” understanding it to mean “to be informed, educated on, and aware of social injustices.”

The USA Today-Ipsos poll released on Wednesday found that 56 percent agreed with the more positive definition, while 39 percent had a negative association with the word and understood it to mean “to be overly politically correct and police others’ words.”

Can you explain why this doesn't coincide with you and Bill's world view? You're so convinced that this cost the Democrats the election, when the majority of people think being Woke is a good thing.
 
Ramrouser said:
Even the Dems recognize that their failure to “talk like normal people” is hurting them with working class voters. AOC even removed her pronoun announcements from her social media accounts.
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have you figured out how jurisdiction works? that seems like a more productive use of your time than complaining about pronouns.
 
ZenMode said:
Exactly. Lockdowns undoubtedly slowed the spread and, as a result, undoubtedly saved some number of lives. The question you brought up is whether or not the cure was worse than the disease. That's the ultimate question and everyone's going to have their opinion based on their individual experience, what information they read or heard and based on their politics.

I look at the cure that was implemented across the country, and I didn't even include the impact to school children and I don't think that cure was justified by the disease. In fact, if we are ever in an situation, with a virus with identical characteristics, I think government at all levels would do things differently. I don't think you would have full lockdowns and closure of businesses. I think you would have distancing requirements, capacity limitations and other modifications to make it as safe as possible. If there was a closure of businesses, I think it might be in specific, populous areas like New York City. I don't think school age children would be forced to wear masks, specifically because of the considerable negative impact on young children as it relates to learning to speech development....to name a few.
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I can understand a lot of your points, but the mask thing I just don't agree with. There are some cultures where wearing mask for colds or allergies are completely normal and was normal before COVID. From what I've read the issue with American's was more being told to wear a mask than any actual negatives from the mask. Plus, there was only a need to wear a mask in public settings. I never wore one in the car, in my office, or at home. I wore one when I was going to be in a group of people or in a close area.


mitsloan.mit.edu

How cultural psychology influences mask-wearing | MIT Sloan

mitsloan.mit.edu mitsloan.mit.edu

Mask Wearing as Cultural Behavior: An Investigation Across 45 U.S. States During the COVID-19 Pandemic - PMC

Although masks (face coverings) are a prime tool in fighting airborne pathogens, during the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States the use of masks encountered resistance based on existing patterns of cultural division. We argue that mask wearing ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

On negatives of wearing a mask: Challenges and Adverse Effects of Wearing Face Masks in the COVID-19 Era

Honestly your statement is the first I've ever heard of speech development issues, so google:
www.chconline.org

Do Masks Delay Speech and Language Development?

During a child’s first few years of life, they are rapidly developing communication skills. Whether by smiling, cooing and babbling, pointing and gesturing, or saying their first words, children express themselves from birth. Some families wonder whether continuous use of... Read more >>
www.chconline.org www.chconline.org

From the article: While this is a natural concern, there is no known evidence that use of face masks interferes with speech and language development or social communication. Plus, children can still get plenty of face time at home with mask-free family members.

I also don't see how mask could impact learning. If you want to make an argument regarding learning, then online learning had a lot to be desired.

When my daughter was doing the online learning, we had a conference with one of her teachers to ask for some additional time and resources. The teacher told us that she was happy to see one of her students actually participating. She said that in my daughter's class about 10% of the students were responding and turning in work. Most were just not doing anything.

I know my daughter's anxiety and social skills were impacted by COVID, but we can figure those things out and deal with them. Had she got sick and died, there's no figuring that out.

I still believe that most of the outrage came from the leaders of a certain party who made it about fear and scare tactics to get people outraged. Had we not had those "Leaders" doing that, I doubt we see most of the outrage and I believe we get through it much better than we did.
 
TitanNC said:
I think about those early days of the pandemic and I always think back to the utter lack of leadership we were receiving from the Trump administration. If he had just provided servant/sacrificial leadership we have gotten through it so much better. One day, years from now, his legacy will be the increased deaths due to his lack of leadership. Even the good that happened - getting the vaccines out in incredible time - was messed up because he didn’t tamp down the anti-vax stuff spewed by his followers.
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Exactly, everything would have been better had he just been honest and a leader. He wasn't a leader then and isn't a leader now, but the cult blindly follows.
 
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