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Trump / Musk (other than DOGE)

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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I'd also point out that we are literally two weeks into this regime change. It is a useful two weeks, but there are still a lot of unknowns right now. It's useful to began discussing terminology, but we don't yet know how far Musk, Trump, et. al. plan to take things.
 
Paine said:
This is all getting into the contemporary debates about historical fascism (some believe it should just be applied to the post-WWI movements) vs. just using it as a political signifier. I think there is merit to both arguments, and I don’t really fall fully on either side.

As I say, fascist is still a useful descriptor for the type of politics these cretins pine for, even if it doesn’t meet the technical definition of historical fascism. Overuse of it is dangerous though as it loses all significance.
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Correct. I do not think it is being overused when applied to what is happening.

I think those debates about historical fascism are silly. Nothing is ever perfectly alike. The main differentiator these days is the ability to flood the zone like never before. If zone flooding had been possible in the 1930s and 1940s, I imagine there might have been more of it. I mean, they did flood the zone to some degree, but obviously the ability was limited.

If we want to say that Musk and Hitler aren't doing exactly the same thing, well of course. Neither were Stalin and Mao. That Musk and his people use "imperial CEO" instead of "Fuhrer" doesn't really make that much difference.
 
1moretimeagain said:
New Under Secretary at the State Department
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"Mr Beattie, did you say that 'competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work'?"
"Senator, I'm focused on the future."
"I'll ask again: Mr Beattie, did you say that 'competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work'?"
"Anonymous smears."
"I have the tweet right here! Mr Beattie, did you not say that 'competent white men must be in charge if you want things to work'?"
"I resent your characterization of my words. My account was hacked."
 
superrific said:
Correct. I do not think it is being overused when applied to what is happening.

I think those debates about historical fascism are silly. Nothing is ever perfectly alike. The main differentiator these days is the ability to flood the zone like never before. If zone flooding had been possible in the 1930s and 1940s, I imagine there might have been more of it. I mean, they did flood the zone to some degree, but obviously the ability was limited.

If we want to say that Musk and Hitler aren't doing exactly the same thing, well of course. Neither were Stalin and Mao. That Musk and his people use "imperial CEO" instead of "Fuhrer" doesn't really make that much difference.
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I tend to agree with you, but I think reasonable people will disagree about it.
 


Trump Admin is supposed to try to stop firearms being shipped into Mexico as part of this short-term reprieve. I find it hard to believe they will do anything even performative that looks like a crack down on gun sales.
 
nycfan said:
Please don’t use this site to hope for assassination if anyone. We don’t want to be a platform for murderous and suicidal ideation.
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WTF? Hoping for Luigi is not ideation.

But anyway, exactly how far does this policy go? Is it a problem to note that authoritarianism is almost always defeated with some level of violence? TIs it wrong to note how Mussolini ended? It is a fact that the Iraqis killed not just Saddam but his sons. The Bolsheviks and the Jacobins killed the whole royal family. Is it wrong to point that out?
 
superrific said:
WTF? Hoping for Luigi is not ideation.

But anyway, exactly how far does this policy go? Is it a problem to note that authoritarianism is almost always defeated with some level of violence? TIs it wrong to note how Mussolini ended? It is a fact that the Iraqis killed not just Saddam but his sons. The Bolsheviks and the Jacobins killed the whole royal family. Is it wrong to point that out?
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It isn’t acceptable to use the platform to openly hope that an assassin kills someone. Or did you mean a different Luigi?
 
nycfan said:
It isn’t acceptable to use the platform to openly hope that an assassin kills someone. Or did you mean a different Luigi?
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Really? How far are you going to take this? Can I hope that Putin has an untimely demise? Is it OK to root for KJU to have a heart attack?

Whether or not someone assassinates Elon is completely beyond my control. I'm not even advocating it.

Reality check: law exists to make violence unnecessary and punishable. People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way. They will have defeated the thing that protects them. Heck, in many countries, that coup attempt would have been addressed with summary execution.
 
nycfan said:


Trump Admin is supposed to try to stop firearms being shipped into Mexico as part of this short-term reprieve. I find it hard to believe they will do anything even performative that looks like a crack down on gun sales.
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I doubt they even know how.
 
superrific said:
Really? How far are you going to take this? Can I hope that Putin has an untimely demise? Is it OK to root for KJU to have a heart attack?

Whether or not someone assassinates Elon is completely beyond my control. I'm not even advocating it.

Reality check: law exists to make violence unnecessary and punishable. People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way. They will have defeated the thing that protects them. Heck, in many countries, that coup attempt would have been addressed with summary execution.
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The back and forth is set forth below. When you say you are "hoping for Luigi" how are you not advocating something like Luigi did, which was murder a guy in cold blood? Or were you thinking about Super Mario Bros.?

You then go on to argue above that "People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way" which indicates that you in fact meant you hope for a similar attack on Musk. I'm not stretching anything you said and politely requesting avoiding the step from discussing the ways in which putting oneself above the law can lead to a violent response to the one where you "hope" or otherwise encourage an assassination.

--- prior back and forth below ---

RaiGuy said:
My hope is that he and trump will have a fall out sooner than later and he will be one of the first to leave (like the last term when trump's inner circle was dropping like flies).
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YOUR RESPONSE: I'm hoping for Luigi.
 
nycfan said:
The back and forth is set forth below. When you say you are "hoping for Luigi" how are you not advocating something like Luigi did, which was murder a guy in cold blood? Or were you thinking about Super Mario Bros.?

You then go on to argue above that "People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way" which indicates that you in fact meant you hope for a similar attack on Musk. I'm not stretching anything you said and politely requesting avoiding the step from discussing the ways in which putting oneself above the law can lead to a violent response to the one where you "hope" or otherwise encourage an assassination.

--- prior back and forth below ---


YOUR RESPONSE: I'm hoping for Luigi.
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Hoping is not advocating. I am hoping someone kills Elon Musk. Just like I hope that someone kills Putin.

Your position is really strange given that our country was born from violence. Our constitution was borne from rebellions and riots. Throughout all of human history, the riot, the popular uprising -- those have been the main forms of resistance against oppression. That's just a fact.

Gil Scott Heron once talked about his realization that Nat Turner was one of the good guys. Is that also verboten? I mean, have you listened to any of his poems? There's a LOT of violence in there, and a lot of ideation to boot. He's considered a major voice of twentieth century social protest and political art.

NWA talked about smoking pork. I guess we can't talk about NWA either, then.

You are trying to draw a line that does not exist, that does not make sense, and is historically blind. I am almost always good natured toward moderator requests, but I'm not going to kow-tow to this administration. Fascists want you to say things like you did. I won't partake.
 
Imagine if Thomas "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" Jefferson posted here. nycfan would short-circuit.
 
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