Trump supporters and intelligence

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With the nation split on Trump roughly 45/45, of course there are many intelligent Trump supporters.

Rather than intelligence, I look at the core of his base and where he leads in votes.

Here are the facts. The only major demographic Trump has ever won is uneducated white males. He came close to winning with uneducated white females.

He also tends to perform much better the more rural and detached geographically.

So intelligence aside, his base and cult are formed by uneducated whites in rural America. Being less educated, less informed, rural and detached from other cultures and forms if life experiences, makes them easy targets to be conned by misinformation, Fox News and talk radio.

That is why so many believe in silly conspiracies, a New World Order, a Deep State, corrupt Gov agencies, and all of Trump's BS.
 
There was a discussion on the other thread about the perennial question: are MAGA voters unintelligent? And the answer is indisputably, "not really." Maybe on average they have lower IQs and SAT scores, but lots of people I know have MAGA co-workers. Those co-workers do their jobs just fine. They are lawyers, engineers, programmers, software engineers -- and then when it comes to politics, their brain switches off. Their political beliefs, in the majority of cases, are objectively stupid. And why? What happens? I was talking with my son about this last night and I think I have an analogy. Unfortunately, it's a bit complicated but anyway . . .

In quantum mechanics, there's a phenomenon known as electron tunneling. Basically, it's this weird effect where an electron can travel through an electric field even when it doesn't have enough energy to do so. It's more easily understood if you think about a ball rolling up and down a hill. If the ball starts at the bottom of the hill with a high enough velocity, it can make to the top of the hill and then roll down the other side, but it it doesn't have enough velocity, it will get near the top but fall back down. And electrons are the same way, except the force to overcome is electromagnetic. Except that in quantum mechanics, sometimes the electron "tunnels" through the hill and ends up on the other side even though it didn't have enough energy.

So here's the analogy. Think of the hill as intelligence. There's an outcome on the other side of the hill or barrier that you want. I don't know, it could be a Christian nation or a communist paradise. Point is, you want to get there. But you are also smart, and so you're trying to push the electron through the field but it doesn't have enough energy. The communist paradise just doesn't make sense. You can try and try to make justifications or theoretical arguments about how it will work, and dismiss all the failed attempts as "not real communism" or "not true to the Marxist paradigm of historical stages," but they don't work. When you think about it deeply, carefully and without bias, the hill is too steep.

But MAGAs have the ability to tunnel the electron through the hill. It's a shortcut. It lets them get where they want to go, without all that pesky critical reasoning. And when they are in the tunnel, they are being objectively stupid. It's the only way they can get there. So when we say they are dumb, that's what we are referring to -- it's the process by which they short circuit their own intelligence to get them to a conclusion that they can't get to with their rational mind.

This doesn't only apply to MAGAs. It commonly happens with Supreme Court justices, which is why sometimes their opinions just seem so ridiculous. In the Trump immunity decision, John Roberts looked at the facts of the case and literally wrote that biggest danger we face is the prospect of serial persecution of outgoing presidents for political purposes, not criminal behavior by presidents. And he wrote that despite also noting that it's never happened before in the history of the Republic, whereas criminal behavior by presidents is known and at least something of a problem, and the case before them involved a defendant ex-president who absolutely did commit crimes, which we know from public information. So how did he get to "we must give the president immunity to save the Republic from something that never happened before." He mentally tunneled through his own intelligence.

Or the gerrymandering case. Roberts wrote, joined by all the conservative justices, that gerrymandering is a problem that only the legislature can solve. Courts are ill-equipped to draw lines (in this case, somewhat literally). Which isn't entirely wrong about the courts and their equipment, but anyone with half a brain realizes that gerrymandering is one of the few problems that the legislature CAN'T solve. It's a problem that the legislature creates. It's the effect of the decision to give district drawing power to the people elected from those districts. The problem exists because legislators have all the incentive to gerrymander. Saying that only the legislature can fix it is baffling. Again, he tunneled through his own intelligence to get where he wanted to go.

What do you think? Helpful analogy? Empirically accurate?
This is a thought-provoking take. I appreciate your sharing.
I may be misinterpreting your analogy so forgive me if this is off, but it seems this implies a heavy amount of cynicism on the part of Trump supporters. Is it that they willfully, and cynically, suppress intelligence in order to bore through the hill to achieve their goals? Is it even willful and thus, if not willful, could not be called cynical?

Lastly, it makes me consider how, and if, intelligence is connected to critical thinking. Critical thinking requires, in this aspect, analytical skills in judging source materials. This is all anecdotal, but it seems a not insignificant portion of MAGA believe their critical thinking skills are acute because they see through the veil of delusion that the media/government/society has draped over the masses. They think their conspiracy theories are the real truth and thus they have an exceptionally high level of critical thinking. However, we know that is hogwash. Their "sources" can be easily debunked. Yet, our debunking is often seen as proof by them that we are "brainwashed" (or another term for not willing to see the "truth").

This is extremely frustrating to me. It is a lack of critical thinking that they disguise as superior critical thinking and we are full of avenues (social media, etc.) that serve to reinforce this belief. I wish I knew how to combat this.
 
This is a thought-provoking take. I appreciate your sharing.
I may be misinterpreting your analogy so forgive me if this is off, but it seems this implies a heavy amount of cynicism on the part of Trump supporters. Is it that they willfully, and cynically, suppress intelligence in order to bore through the hill to achieve their goals? Is it even willful and thus, if not willful, could not be called cynical?

Lastly, it makes me consider how, and if, intelligence is connected to critical thinking. Critical thinking requires, in this aspect, analytical skills in judging source materials. This is all anecdotal, but it seems a not insignificant portion of MAGA believe their critical thinking skills are acute because they see through the veil of delusion that the media/government/society has draped over the masses. They think their conspiracy theories are the real truth and thus they have an exceptionally high level of critical thinking. However, we know that is hogwash. Their "sources" can be easily debunked. Yet, our debunking is often seen as proof by them that we are "brainwashed" (or another term for not willing to see the "truth").

This is extremely frustrating to me. It is a lack of critical thinking that they disguise as superior critical thinking and we are full of avenues (social media, etc.) that serve to reinforce this belief. I wish I knew how to combat this.
Yeah, this is a little oversimple, but the problem is not that Trump supporters are stupid. It's that they're selfish and self-centered.

 
Pretty much. Most of them have drawn a conclusion and reason to support it. Religion, greed or fear tend to actually form those conclusions.
Good point. For Trump supporters they already have the conclusion and there are numerous “sources” to “prove” those conclusions.
 
This is a thought-provoking take. I appreciate your sharing.
I may be misinterpreting your analogy so forgive me if this is off, but it seems this implies a heavy amount of cynicism on the part of Trump supporters. Is it that they willfully, and cynically, suppress intelligence in order to bore through the hill to achieve their goals? Is it even willful and thus, if not willful, could not be called cynical?

Lastly, it makes me consider how, and if, intelligence is connected to critical thinking. Critical thinking requires, in this aspect, analytical skills in judging source materials. This is all anecdotal, but it seems a not insignificant portion of MAGA believe their critical thinking skills are acute because they see through the veil of delusion that the media/government/society has draped over the masses. They think their conspiracy theories are the real truth and thus they have an exceptionally high level of critical thinking. However, we know that is hogwash. Their "sources" can be easily debunked. Yet, our debunking is often seen as proof by them that we are "brainwashed" (or another term for not willing to see the "truth").

This is extremely frustrating to me. It is a lack of critical thinking that they disguise as superior critical thinking and we are full of avenues (social media, etc.) that serve to reinforce this belief. I wish I knew how to combat this.
You're right to bring critical reasoning into this, and I should revise my analogy appropriately. Also, I think version 2.0 will be somewhat more apt.

So in the physics analogy, the electron tunnels through an energy barrier. Here, we should think of the barrier as "reasoning required to get to a specific belief." I'm not sure this is the same as motivated reasoning, because that implies conscious effort. In MAGA world, the specific belief could be simply a desire that the world makes as much sense to them now as it did 20 years ago, or it could be a belief in the superiority of white civilization, or just a general discomfort with the minorities they were raised to sneer at. The specifics don't matter all that much. They have lots of different conspiracy theories to govern different aspects of their lives.

The point is that they know they are supposed to get there with critical reasoning. And we know this because of their catch phrase, "do your own research." Most of them aren't saying, "I know this vaccine is evil because God told me so." Sometimes they admit that they are talking with their feelings (especially with the "millions of Americans agree with me that Bill Gates put microchips in the vaccines" dodge), but for the most part, they structure their arguments as if they were the product of critical reasoning. They use the tools of critical reasoning. But the tools don't get them over the barrier of rationality so they just tunnel right through. I'm not sure if they do it consciously or not.

But let's imagine a scene involving some of these people:

Thought 1: "I should take this COVID vaccine. It might save my life."
Thought 2: "Trump has been telling us to use medicines like ivermectin and hydroxy-etc. The experts have been telling us they don't work. Those are the experts who developed the vaccine."
Thought 3: [this one might be unacknowledged] If the vaccine is good, it means Trump was wrong
Thought 4: "But vaccines are good. Vaccines save lives. I know this deep down because nobody gets polio any more. So I can't just criticize vaccines. It has to be something about this vaccine."
Thought 5: "But I don't know how this vaccine works. I don't understand molecular biology."
Thought 6: "If the vaccine would magnetize me, that would be a good reason not to take it."

And then we get the spectacle of someone testifying to Congress that they became magnetic after taking the vaccine. They go with the magnetism explanation because there's nowhere left to go. They don't have enough critical reasoning to get over the barrier, either because the barrier shouldn't be avoided (i.e. it's the truth, like the fact that vaccines save lives) or because they aren't able to do it (whether it's lack of intelligence, facility with critical and fact-based argument, or some other factor). They end up going right through it.

It's an interesting question whether they would go to such lengths if not engaged in dialogue with us. We are the ones who press them on things like "vaccines work." If you took a thousand MAGAs to an isolated island and let them live there for a decade, form a government, do what they need to do to survive -- would they still be spouting so much bullshit? They might get to the same place, but without the express stupidity. Maybe they won't feel the need to rebut vaccines work; they just all mutually assume that it's not true and don't talk about it too much.

***

As for the Supreme Court justices and other highly educated people, it's definitely intentional. John Roberts knows when he's writing a shit opinion. His tone is different. Same with some of the others, though there's less of a control group because they rarely write non-shit opinions. He's more strident when defending the indefensible, and uses absolutes more often. It's like in Bruen, when they refer to the Second Amendment's "unqualified demand" (reality: the Second Amendment is the most qualified right on its face, and indeed the only right subject to an express qualification standing apart). Or this passage from Trump v United States:

"Unable to muster any meaningful textual or historical support, the principal dissent suggests that there is an “established understanding” that “former Presidents are answerable to the criminal law for their official acts.” Conspicuously absent is mention of the fact that since the founding, no President has ever faced criminal charges—let alone for his conduct in office. And accordingly no court has ever been faced with the question of a President’s immunity from prosecution. All that our Nation’spractice establishes on the subject is silence. "

So he wrote that despite arguing in the previous paragraph that the text of the constitution is irrelevant to this issue. So it's weird for him to complain that the dissent has no textual support when he has less. It's also weird for him to accuse the dissent of having no historical support. And it's super, super weird for him to cite the fact that this has never happened before as a point in his favor, when it is very clearly the opposite. We never needed presidential immunity for presidents to be effective and not act criminally. Only one president required that, and he is also the only one who has talked about weaponizing the justice system, and thus the problem is clearly with that president.

He absolutely knows that his contention that "The dissents’ positions in the end boil down to ignoring the Constitution’s separation of powers and the Court’s precedent and instead fear mongering on the basis of extreme hypotheticals about a future where the President “feels empowered to violate federal criminal law" is ridiculous. In any other context, he would immediately assume that the lack of penalty for criminal behavior makes people more likely to act criminally. The separation of powers has nothing to do with it (not to mention that separation of powers, if relevant, cuts against his position).

In every one of his most preposterous opinions, there are points of stridency and wild accusations that just don't appear in his more sober opinions. The MO is similar: what about this thing I just made up don't you understand, silly dissenters? He doesn't adopt that tone in his abortion opinions, even when he's been on the flip side (i.e. when he wanted to alter Roe to protect the embryo until 15 weeks only). He knows that position isn't transparently silly.
 
You're right to bring critical reasoning into this, and I should revise my analogy appropriately. Also, I think version 2.0 will be somewhat more apt.

So in the physics analogy, the electron tunnels through an energy barrier. Here, we should think of the barrier as "reasoning required to get to a specific belief." I'm not sure this is the same as motivated reasoning, because that implies conscious effort. In MAGA world, the specific belief could be simply a desire that the world makes as much sense to them now as it did 20 years ago, or it could be a belief in the superiority of white civilization, or just a general discomfort with the minorities they were raised to sneer at. The specifics don't matter all that much. They have lots of different conspiracy theories to govern different aspects of their lives.

The point is that they know they are supposed to get there with critical reasoning. And we know this because of their catch phrase, "do your own research." Most of them aren't saying, "I know this vaccine is evil because God told me so." Sometimes they admit that they are talking with their feelings (especially with the "millions of Americans agree with me that Bill Gates put microchips in the vaccines" dodge), but for the most part, they structure their arguments as if they were the product of critical reasoning. They use the tools of critical reasoning. But the tools don't get them over the barrier of rationality so they just tunnel right through. I'm not sure if they do it consciously or not.

But let's imagine a scene involving some of these people:

Thought 1: "I should take this COVID vaccine. It might save my life."
Thought 2: "Trump has been telling us to use medicines like ivermectin and hydroxy-etc. The experts have been telling us they don't work. Those are the experts who developed the vaccine."
Thought 3: [this one might be unacknowledged] If the vaccine is good, it means Trump was wrong
Thought 4: "But vaccines are good. Vaccines save lives. I know this deep down because nobody gets polio any more. So I can't just criticize vaccines. It has to be something about this vaccine."
Thought 5: "But I don't know how this vaccine works. I don't understand molecular biology."
Thought 6: "If the vaccine would magnetize me, that would be a good reason not to take it."

And then we get the spectacle of someone testifying to Congress that they became magnetic after taking the vaccine. They go with the magnetism explanation because there's nowhere left to go. They don't have enough critical reasoning to get over the barrier, either because the barrier shouldn't be avoided (i.e. it's the truth, like the fact that vaccines save lives) or because they aren't able to do it (whether it's lack of intelligence, facility with critical and fact-based argument, or some other factor). They end up going right through it.

It's an interesting question whether they would go to such lengths if not engaged in dialogue with us. We are the ones who press them on things like "vaccines work." If you took a thousand MAGAs to an isolated island and let them live there for a decade, form a government, do what they need to do to survive -- would they still be spouting so much bullshit? They might get to the same place, but without the express stupidity. Maybe they won't feel the need to rebut vaccines work; they just all mutually assume that it's not true and don't talk about it too much.

***

As for the Supreme Court justices and other highly educated people, it's definitely intentional. John Roberts knows when he's writing a shit opinion. His tone is different. Same with some of the others, though there's less of a control group because they rarely write non-shit opinions. He's more strident when defending the indefensible, and uses absolutes more often. It's like in Bruen, when they refer to the Second Amendment's "unqualified demand" (reality: the Second Amendment is the most qualified right on its face, and indeed the only right subject to an express qualification standing apart). Or this passage from Trump v United States:

"Unable to muster any meaningful textual or historical support, the principal dissent suggests that there is an “established understanding” that “former Presidents are answerable to the criminal law for their official acts.” Conspicuously absent is mention of the fact that since the founding, no President has ever faced criminal charges—let alone for his conduct in office. And accordingly no court has ever been faced with the question of a President’s immunity from prosecution. All that our Nation’spractice establishes on the subject is silence. "

So he wrote that despite arguing in the previous paragraph that the text of the constitution is irrelevant to this issue. So it's weird for him to complain that the dissent has no textual support when he has less. It's also weird for him to accuse the dissent of having no historical support. And it's super, super weird for him to cite the fact that this has never happened before as a point in his favor, when it is very clearly the opposite. We never needed presidential immunity for presidents to be effective and not act criminally. Only one president required that, and he is also the only one who has talked about weaponizing the justice system, and thus the problem is clearly with that president.

He absolutely knows that his contention that "The dissents’ positions in the end boil down to ignoring the Constitution’s separation of powers and the Court’s precedent and instead fear mongering on the basis of extreme hypotheticals about a future where the President “feels empowered to violate federal criminal law" is ridiculous. In any other context, he would immediately assume that the lack of penalty for criminal behavior makes people more likely to act criminally. The separation of powers has nothing to do with it (not to mention that separation of powers, if relevant, cuts against his position).

In every one of his most preposterous opinions, there are points of stridency and wild accusations that just don't appear in his more sober opinions. The MO is similar: what about this thing I just made up don't you understand, silly dissenters? He doesn't adopt that tone in his abortion opinions, even when he's been on the flip side (i.e. when he wanted to alter Roe to protect the embryo until 15 weeks only). He knows that position isn't transparently silly.
This does make sense to me and I especially appreciate your commentary about Justice Roberts as my legal scholarship is almost zero.

One of writer David Rabe's most famous plays is "Hurly Burly." It has been a long time since I read it but I distinctly remember one character trying to remember the term syllogism and what it meant (it is an 80s play and most of the characters are on coke, so...) and he comes up with fallacies to prove his idea of a syllogism.

I thought of that while reading your 2.0 and it ties into the discussion of critical reasoning. Again, speculation on my part, but when I hear or read attempts at critical reasoning from Trump supporters, and here I'm speaking of the true MAGA followers, it often follows this type of false syllogism.

The government told me to take the vaccine
The vaccine made me feel bad
The government is trying to kill me

Or something along those lines. Yet to them this is logical: see, B followed A and C clearly followed B so...
This gets into the whole trying to have a discussion with or change the mind of a MAGA followers. If this is their reasoning, how can you discuss an issue with them?
 
None of my friends who are now Trump supporters are people I would describe as intelligent. All are people I would describe as of average to well below average intelligence (and would have prior to support of Trump). There is certainly a correlation between lack of intelligence and support of Trump.
 
This came to mind recently on the topic of whether or not MAGA is unintelligent.

Throughout history, humans have had a lot of backwards beliefs. Belief in witches. Trying to release demons by drilling a hole in your head. The earth is flat. We are no different today. Sure, we are better in a lot of ways, but even the most intelligent among us isn't immune.

Thomas Jefferson was, by most accounts an intelligent, educated and congeniel man. He was also a brutal slave holder who said the following:

"But never yet could I find that a black had uttered a thought above the level of plain narration; never see even an elementary trait of painting or sculpture."
 
This came to mind recently on the topic of whether or not MAGA is unintelligent.

Throughout history, humans have had a lot of backwards beliefs. Belief in witches. Trying to release demons by drilling a hole in your head. The earth is flat. We are no different today. Sure, we are better in a lot of ways, but even the most intelligent among us isn't immune.

Thomas Jefferson was, by most accounts an intelligent, educated and congeniel man. He was also a brutal slave holder who said the following:

"But never yet could I find that a black had uttered a thought above the level of plain narration; never see even an elementary trait of painting or sculpture."
That grammar again, lol. In fairness, there's ambiguity in your prose that creates ambiguity in the grammatical correctness.

It depends on what you mean by "immune." Are the most intelligent individuals sometimes in error? Yes. Indisputably. Are the most intelligent individuals likely to believe ridiculous things like witches or ancient surgery? They are not. They might believe incomplete theories (e.g. quantum mechanics was not predicted by Maxwell, who was indisputably a genius) but by the standards of knowledge of the time, belief in ridiculousness tends to be opposed to intelligence.

There are some studies purporting to show that highly intelligent people have crazier beliefs because their intelligence creates over confidence in their views. I'm not up to date with that literature, so I can't comment authoritatively, but those studies are measuring something different than space lasers.
 
The Good Liars regularly make me question the tunneling theory. Sure it's a select few clips of Trump supporters, but as CHAMTRAIN mentioned above "None of my friends who are now Trump supporters are people I would describe as intelligent. All are people I would describe as of average to well below average intelligence (and would have prior to support of Trump). There is certainly a correlation between lack of intelligence and support of Trump."


 
For those familiar with Lexington here in Davidson county, I went to the Walmart neighborhood market yesterday to get a few things, and there is an old bank building right there on highway 64 where a homeless family has set up shop in the drive-thru teller area. And I swear to God - next time I go I will remember to snap a picture - they have a homemade Trump Vance 2024 sign sitting there outside their encampment.

And then to contrast - and I've mentioned this before In other posts - you have folks like my father and stepmother. Very nice people, love them dearly, both highly educated with advanced degrees - but a steady diet of Fox News for almost 30 years and Evangelical Christianity for a lifetime have put them firmly in the Trump camp.

I do wonder sometimes if we are actually through the looking-glass.
 
This does make sense to me and I especially appreciate your commentary about Justice Roberts as my legal scholarship is almost zero.

One of writer David Rabe's most famous plays is "Hurly Burly." It has been a long time since I read it but I distinctly remember one character trying to remember the term syllogism and what it meant (it is an 80s play and most of the characters are on coke, so...) and he comes up with fallacies to prove his idea of a syllogism.

I thought of that while reading your 2.0 and it ties into the discussion of critical reasoning. Again, speculation on my part, but when I hear or read attempts at critical reasoning from Trump supporters, and here I'm speaking of the true MAGA followers, it often follows this type of false syllogism.

The government told me to take the vaccine
The vaccine made me feel bad
The government is trying to kill me

Or something along those lines. Yet to them this is logical: see, B followed A and C clearly followed B so...
This gets into the whole trying to have a discussion with or change the mind of a MAGA followers. If this is their reasoning, how can you discuss an issue with them?
I never responded to this. It's a good point and you are right about that "syllogism"
 
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