Trump to take over D.C. Policing | Chicago Next

[ZenMode]

No, because the relationship between incarceration and crime is non-linear, in much the same way as tax revenues and income tax rates.

In most forms of economics or other models of social systems, the key observables are equilibrium values. That means there's a turning point in their graph. The output function of firms is like that: the most profitable production level is not 0 and it's not necessarily "as much as the factory can possible produce." There's an optimal level.

This will perhaps be difficult for you to understand so I will simplify: if there is an optimal level of something, it means the relationship is non-linear and the slippery slope doesn't apply. There's an optimal level of taxation. We can debate what it is exactly, but clearly tax revenue is 0 at 0% taxation and 100% taxation (one supposes in certain special circumstances, 100% taxation could still produce revenue but as a general rule, of course not). Thus, there must be some tax level at which raising or lowering the rate would decrease revenue.

I wasn't talking about any crime. I was talking about violent crime. There's no reason not to put violent criminals away and failure to do so is only permitting them to commit more violent crimes. That has been shown with the failed bail policies in blue states.

 

[nycfan]

 

[superrific]

I wasn't talking about any crime. I was talking about violent crime. There's no reason not to put violent criminals away and failure to do so is only permitting them to commit more violent crimes. That has been shown with the failed bail policies in blue states.

I was talking about violent crime statistics also.

The reason that you don't put people accused of violent crimes away is that they have only been accused. Innocent until proven guilty. My brother was once picked up on a Friday morning. He had been at a bar the night before, and some drunk guy cold cocked him. My brother got up and started yelling at him but didn't throw a punch or anything. Then the guy got in another fight later and someone messed him up. The guy fingered my brother as the instigator of it all.

Well, my brother got bail on Friday. Recognizance bond. Charges were dropped on Monday. That's why bail exists.

Tell me this: are you aware that bail is a practice that is far older than the Republic? It originated in 13th Century England. It was codified in the very first statute the first Congress passed -- the judiciary act of 1789. Bail has been a feature of our criminal justice literally since the very beginning.

Why do you think that now, all of a sudden, bail is an atrocity that needs to be ended? What has changed so much? Do you think you're more intelligent than all the generations of Americans that came before you, combined? What exactly is the limit of your arrogance?

 

[Healing]

“I was talking about violent crime…That has been shown with the failed bail policies in blue states.”

Then why is the violent crime rate higher in red states?

 

[Duke Mu]

“I was talking about violent crime…That has been shown with the failed bail policies in blue states.”

Then why is the violent crime rate higher in red states?

Obviously, criminals from blue states crossing state lines...

 

[StrangePackage]

I wasn't talking about any crime. I was talking about violent crime. There's no reason not to put violent criminals away and failure to do so is only permitting them to commit more violent crimes. That has been shown with the failed bail policies in blue states.

How many violent criminals have you put away? You're just speaking with an awful lot of certainty, so I wondered where it comes from.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

Let’s go, boys. If you’ve got time to lean, you’ve got time to kidnap minorities off the street, throw them in the back of unmarked vans, and ship them off to 3rd world country prisons without due process.

FIFY.

 

[lawtig02]

Wait, Trump’s scared to walk outside in BALTIMORE??? What a pussy.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

So says a woman who shoots dogs and goats and proclaims she upholds traditional values while also conducting a years-long extramarital affair with a man she's named to basically run her agency for her. People ought to believe everything she says. Really.

 

[farce©]

You're just speaking with an awful lot of certainty, so I wondered where it comes from.

He always speaks with certainty. He never allows a lack of knowledge to interfere with voicing a strong (albeit misguided) opinion.

 

[Carolina Fever]

Now the assclown says they will seek the death penalty in every murder case in DC.

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

I don’t believe this scenario is inevitable but it seems like a possibility.

I think it is inevitable unless Trump makes a critical mistake by moving too quickly / overstepping.

But I am not even sure a Tiananmen Square type massacre would do it. The right wing media would just blame the victims.

The Chicago Tribune reports that over the past 60 years, more than 40,000 men, women and children have been murdered in the City. More than 1 million have been wounded. It's like it’s a forever war but the Mayor claims it doesn't need any help and doesn't need any more cops - only more social workers.

Why don’t you address the state’s rights issues at play here?

No way a right leaning city would allow this when a Democrat was in charge, and they would be correct.

Troops in am American city is a severe action which should only be done in a true emergency. Claiming the status quo that has existed for 60 years being an emergency is simply disingenuous.

 

[Ramrouser]

Ok I get that but it’s so bad in Chicago that wouldn’t you want help in stopping the murders? If not, ok carry on

 

[superrific]

Ok I get that but it’s so bad in Chicago that wouldn’t you want help in stopping the murders? If not, ok carry on

Not if the help makes things worse. I mean, wtf is wrong with you? If you are headed to the courthouse, in the process of losing yet another case, and the bum on the corner says, "here, let me help you in court. wouldn't you want that help?" I hope to hell that you would decline. That you need help doesn't mean any help offered might be welcome.

Throughout history -- almost everywhere and at all times -- military "assistance" in policing raises the crime rate. It doesn't get recorded that way because the officers who commit the crimes say they are legit operations, but we've seen what they are really doing. These are aggravated assaults on US residents that are in no way justified by any concern about self-defense.

I find it truly sad that you can watch a video of ICE agents breaking a guy's arm while wrestling him to the ground, even as he obeys all commands, and think, "this is OK." We've seen videos of people's cars getting smashed by ICE. Of people getting their head smacked into pavement, creating concussions. People walking along and being pulled into vans without warning. These are all crimes.

You guys love to talk about crime rates. I'd estimate the crime rate among ICE officers is between 50-80%. I'll bet the majority of them have committed what would be a major felony if done by a civilian. They aren't justified by any circumstances. It's just that ICE doesn't have to follow the law because Bondi and company would never ever prosecute and they are destroying all the records (or not even keeping them).

 

[Calheel]

Ok I get that but it’s so bad in Chicago that wouldn’t you want help in stopping the murders? If not, ok carry on

Provide funding for community safety efforts. That is how crime prevention has worked from the federal government for 100 years.

 

[rodoheel]

I was talking about violent crime statistics also.

The reason that you don't put people accused of violent crimes away is that they have only been accused. Innocent until proven guilty. My brother was once picked up on a Friday morning. He had been at a bar the night before, and some drunk guy cold cocked him. My brother got up and started yelling at him but didn't throw a punch or anything. Then the guy got in another fight later and someone messed him up. The guy fingered my brother as the instigator of it all.

Well, my brother got bail on Friday. Recognizance bond. Charges were dropped on Monday. That's why bail exists.

Tell me this: are you aware that bail is a practice that is far older than the Republic? It originated in 13th Century England. It was codified in the very first statute the first Congress passed -- the judiciary act of 1789. Bail has been a feature of our criminal justice literally since the very beginning.

Why do you think that now, all of a sudden, bail is an atrocity that needs to be ended? What has changed so much? Do you think you're more intelligent than all the generations of Americans that came before you, combined? What exactly is the limit of your arrogance?

Bail is indeed a storied practice, but that doesn't mean the way we do it is right. Historical cash bail policies have often served as a way to keep poor people in jail for months or years even before they are convicted of a crime (and have the chance to be exonerated through a trial). Gene Nichol in particular has written a whole lot about how cash bail and other policies can essentially criminalize being poor.

 

[rodoheel]

Ok I get that but it’s so bad in Chicago that wouldn’t you want help in stopping the murders? If not, ok carry on

Chicago's murder rate is lower than a lot of other US cities. If we're going to send the military to cities to help with policing, should we start with, say, the several Alabama cities with murder rates higher than Chicago's?