Trump to take over D.C. Policing | Chicago Next

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Has anyone here read Herman Wouk's "The Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance"? He's best known for "The Caine Mutiny," but I think the other two are his best works. I read them 20+ years ago, but I'm re-reading them right now. I find something every 4-5 pages that connects directly with what MAGA is doing today.
 
Ramrouser said:
National Guard is helping DC by cleaning out the homeless camps and cleaning up areas like Union Square. This, perhaps, will inspire the MPD to not let this get out of hand in the future as Trump will simply call the Guard back in to clean things up - which should embarrass the Mayor and MPD. Same with crime but yes Trump should allow more funding specifically to hire more officers for a long term solution.

Don’t think Trump is actually deploying the Guard to other cities (over the objection of mayors) unless to guard and protect Federal property. It’s more of a head fake to make Dem Mayors support the status quos on crime while he is seen as wanting “do something” about crime.
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This might deserve its own thread, but my question to you is: what will you do if you're wrong, and what should you expect us to do?

1. Normally, people tend to be more trustworthy when they have skin in the game. Bullshit is free, and thus does it flow freely like Wuffie tears. When you have a stake in the outcome, then at least the bullshit comes with a cost. This is why, for instance, executives of companies are paid with company stock. They are less likely to peddle bullshit about how they are wisely reinvesting profits in money-losing projects. Skin in the game is by no means a guarantee of integrity, but all else equal, it's better than no.

2. So what is your skin in the game? Surely if you actually believe that Trump is only head faking here, you'd commit to do something in the event that you're wrong. Like this: put $10K in an escrow account, beneficiary ZZLP, payable in the event that Trump is not just head faking. If you did that, then it would certainly improve your perceived sincerity. But you won't do that, will you? Because then you'd have to address the reality of the situation, and not just the fairy tales you like to tell.

3. If you don't take accountability for your political views, what should the rest of us do? It's one thing to have a disagreement about taxes or teaching history in schools. It's another entirely for us to descend into civil war, which seems likely if it isn't already happening. By civil war, I'm not referring to a shooting war; more of a Cold War type of thing given that a full civil war isn't really possible in a country with nuclear weapons. If we have troops occupying our cities, it means our constitutional republic is over.

You know this. It has been told to you many times. And when the stakes are this high, what consequences should come to those responsible? Nothing? Should nothing happen to you at all? You actively support a fascist destruction of our democratic republic, and your consequences should be nothing?

4. I don't think your consequence will be nothing. If Trump does attempt a full fascist takeover -- remember, we're seven months into a 4 year term -- then I don't think anyone will be in a forgiving mood if he fails (again). If he succeeds and then we have to fight just to preserve our country, there will be even less forgiveness.

I suspect a lot of people will be thrown in camps. You know, like Alligator Alcatraz. The things that you build and create in order to torture others will be used against you. That's what I think.

Wouldn't you deserve it? Why shouldn't we do to you what you so eagerly want to do to others?

5. Do you see what I'm getting at here? If you foresee consequences to you, then probably you'd have to be more careful in what and who you support. And isn't that the way it should be when the fate of the Republic is at stake? I mean, if you think I'm wildly exaggerating the threat, then you've got nothing to worry about, do you? Why not commit to seppuku if Trump declares martial law? I did back in the day, when someone I knew was going on about how Obama wanted to be like a king. I wrote out a brief contract stating that if Obama assumed dictatorial powers, I would ritually disembowel myself from shame. That was more of a rhetorical move given that the contract was not enforceable, but I would have committed myself to seppuku if there was a legal mechanism. Because I knew that the threat was zero.

You don't think the threat is zero, do you? And that's the problem.

So what should be the punishment to you for actively supporting the fascist destruction of the United States Of America?
 
Molotov Mocktail said:
The inability to reflect is a hallmark of maga.

Themes that dominate maga include never apologize, never admit a mistake, empathy is for pussies, I know as much as any expert on any subject, my values are whatever trump said today.

Magats are in a state of perpetual arrested development. Growth is weakness.
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This is why consequences must come to them. And we must be clear eyed about what needs to be done.
 
dukeman92 said:
I do not know how anyone could read this post and come to any other conclusion except that you're a bat shit crazy lunatic.
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What's your solution to "solving" the homeless problem? Easy to throw stones. Let me guess, spend another 24B in California alone to get 30k more homeless? My plan's better the Newsom's.
 
McAdooSmackinYou said:
the solution to homelessness is housing
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Sure, but that's when it gets hard. Public housing hasn't really been successful unless you are a Section 8 landlord, and current public housing residents generally have fewer pathologies than the unhoused.

You have to address a number of poverty-related issues to mitigate homelessness, including health care, substance abuse, employment and training. It's a multi-dimensional problem that our country has a poor public record in addressing. I mean, has anyone ever had anything positive to say about HUD or their local public housing authority?

And we liberals don't like to admit it, but the solution in the absence of sufficient anti-poverty programs isn't to allow people to set up camps wherever they can. There are no easy solutions, short of forced institutionalism and vagrancy laws. And nobody except Stephen Miller and his minions want to go back to those days.
 
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superrific said:
This might deserve its own thread, but my question to you is: what will you do if you're wrong, and what should you expect us to do?

1. Normally, people tend to be more trustworthy when they have skin in the game. Bullshit is free, and thus does it flow freely like Wuffie tears. When you have a stake in the outcome, then at least the bullshit comes with a cost. This is why, for instance, executives of companies are paid with company stock. They are less likely to peddle bullshit about how they are wisely reinvesting profits in money-losing projects. Skin in the game is by no means a guarantee of integrity, but all else equal, it's better than no.

2. So what is your skin in the game? Surely if you actually believe that Trump is only head faking here, you'd commit to do something in the event that you're wrong. Like this: put $10K in an escrow account, beneficiary ZZLP, payable in the event that Trump is not just head faking. If you did that, then it would certainly improve your perceived sincerity. But you won't do that, will you? Because then you'd have to address the reality of the situation, and not just the fairy tales you like to tell.

3. If you don't take accountability for your political views, what should the rest of us do? It's one thing to have a disagreement about taxes or teaching history in schools. It's another entirely for us to descend into civil war, which seems likely if it isn't already happening. By civil war, I'm not referring to a shooting war; more of a Cold War type of thing given that a full civil war isn't really possible in a country with nuclear weapons. If we have troops occupying our cities, it means our constitutional republic is over.

You know this. It has been told to you many times. And when the stakes are this high, what consequences should come to those responsible? Nothing? Should nothing happen to you at all? You actively support a fascist destruction of our democratic republic, and your consequences should be nothing?

4. I don't think your consequence will be nothing. If Trump does attempt a full fascist takeover -- remember, we're seven months into a 4 year term -- then I don't think anyone will be in a forgiving mood if he fails (again). If he succeeds and then we have to fight just to preserve our country, there will be even less forgiveness.

I suspect a lot of people will be thrown in camps. You know, like Alligator Alcatraz. The things that you build and create in order to torture others will be used against you. That's what I think.

Wouldn't you deserve it? Why shouldn't we do to you what you so eagerly want to do to others?

5. Do you see what I'm getting at here? If you foresee consequences to you, then probably you'd have to be more careful in what and who you support. And isn't that the way it should be when the fate of the Republic is at stake? I mean, if you think I'm wildly exaggerating the threat, then you've got nothing to worry about, do you? Why not commit to seppuku if Trump declares martial law? I did back in the day, when someone I knew was going on about how Obama wanted to be like a king. I wrote out a brief contract stating that if Obama assumed dictatorial powers, I would ritually disembowel myself from shame. That was more of a rhetorical move given that the contract was not enforceable, but I would have committed myself to seppuku if there was a legal mechanism. Because I knew that the threat was zero.

You don't think the threat is zero, do you? And that's the problem.

So what should be the punishment to you for actively supporting the fascist destruction of the United States Of America?
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So, you seem to be calling for "consequences" for 50% of the country supporting Trump if we don't see the error of our ways and "repent." Hmm, I'm not a fascist and I love the Constitution and this Country but you just might turn me into one if I know your side is coming after me once the Republicans cede power. Are you intending to go all ANC and seize our property to give to the "poor"; imprison us in reeducation camps like Mao or Pol Pot?; or simply remove our heads like the Jacobins?

Trump is addressing big city crime (largely ignored by both sides) not starting a civil war.
 
Ramrouser said:
Yeah, that's the ticket. "Give" a druggie homeless guy a house and check back in six months to a year and see how it looks.
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This has, in fact, been done and studied. It’s called housing first and it’s an evidence based alternative to your concentration camp and routine extermination position.
 
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www.texastribune.org

Homelessness in Texas on the rise amid high housing costs, federal estimates show

Homelessness rose last year across nearly every demographic group, but strides were made to connect people with new housing.
www.texastribune.org www.texastribune.org
Texas has a growing Homelessness problem
Note Texas is giant welfare State sucking 60 billion a year more out of the Federal Govt than they put in
Guess who pays that 60 Billion?
Calif has a Plus 80 billion relationship with the Federal Govt
Newsome must be getting tired of paying Abbotts bills
Guess you can't tax in Texas
 
Ramrouser said:
What's your solution to "solving" the homeless problem? Easy to throw stones. Let me guess, spend another 24B in California alone to get 30k more homeless? My plan's better the Newsom's.
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Your plan is segregation. Concentration camps.

I would say, let's start at the reason these people are homeless.
 
Ramrouser said:
Yeah, that's the ticket. "Give" a druggie homeless guy a house and check back in six months to a year and see how it looks.
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Hey, dip shit. Not every homeless person is homeless by choice. Or because they're drug addicts. And nobody said anything about giving anything to anyone. You fucktards are so worried about someone you deem lesser than getting something "for free" you can't even have a rational discussion. Which is why I say there is no reasoning with MAGA. You're a pimple on the ass of society.
 
Ramrouser said:
What's your solution to "solving" the homeless problem? Easy to throw stones. Let me guess, spend another 24B in California alone to get 30k more homeless? My plan's better the Newsom's.
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1. The root cause of the homeless problem in California is the federal tax code, and its lack of any cost of living adjustment in tax rates. This, of course, is the origin of the state's fiscal subsidy to all other states. California pays $83B per year more in federal taxes than it receives in services. That is considerably higher than THE ENTIRE BUDGET OF THE STATE OF GEORGIA.

2. What has happened in California is that the state's remarkable economic prosperity has raised the cost of living. That's what happens when there are literally more than a million millionaires in the state. If the millionaires in California had their own state, it would be larger than 8 states total population.

So cost of living is high. The way places typically handle that problem is with subsidies to the poorest folks in various ways. Build affordable housing; invest in schools; give people an earned income tax credit, etc.

3. But see, that $83B in missing money is a problem. It is being used, in part, to subsidize those programs in other states. Which is fine as a policy matter, since homelessness is no less tragic if is occurs in North Carolina, Kentucky or Santa Monica. But when you point fingers at California for its homeless problems, while ignoring that it is subsidizing your anti-homelessness programs, that it is subsidizing everything you do in your state, it's really a big mess.

4. 30K people is statistical noise in a state with 40 million people. Addressing homelessness is not a thing that can be done in a year or two.

I think most liberals recognize that California dropped the ball on housing construction some time back. It turns out that California's laws on non-compete agreements were extremely efficient (it's a primary reason for Silicon Valley); its laws on housing construction, much less so.

And yes, part of the problem is that the political coalition in CA requires some aspect of limousine liberalism, so to speak. That was the tradeoff: the wealthy say they will pay higher taxes to fund anti-poverty programs, so long as nobody fucks with their property values. That created an environment of housing shortages. We now recognize how much of a mistake that was and we are fixing it.

When was the last time anyone on your side of the ledger realized they fucked up and started trying to fix the problem they created?
 
Ramrouser said:
So, you seem to be calling for "consequences" for 50% of the country supporting Trump if we don't see the error of our ways and "repent." Hmm, I'm not a fascist and I love the Constitution and this Country but you just might turn me into one if I know your side is coming after me once the Republicans cede power. Are you intending to go all ANC and seize our property to give to the "poor"; imprison us in reeducation camps like Mao or Pol Pot?; or simply remove our heads like the Jacobins?

Trump is addressing big city crime (largely ignored by both sides) not starting a civil war.
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I didn't say anything about what I intended. What do you think you deserve?

See, when you say, "I'm not a fascist and I love the constitution," I don't believe you. The reason is that you are ardently supporting a fascist and care nothing for the continuous assault on the constitution you claim to love. What will happen when Trump rips off his mask and it's actually Palpatine? You'll just say, "Oh, I was wrong I guess" and that should be the end of it? We should all be like "hey, you know, shit happens sometimes dude, it's all fine"? Nope. Not remotely good enough.

How about this: Reconstruction v 2.0. Every red state loses its status as a state and has to earn it back. Seem fair? Since you are actively undermining democracy, it's evident you don't care much about it so it shouldn't bother you too much.
 
I was in Chicago for 4 days about two weeks ago. It wasn't until I returned home and on the way to work that I realized I didn't see a single homeless person, panhandler, or drug addict in my time there

Which also got me thinking, that has generally been my experience when in Chicago. Purely anecdotal of course and surely homeless exist in the city in some capacity. But I've seen worse in many cities that don't get half the negative publicity
 
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