Trump: "We will take over Gaza and move all Palestinians out"

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RaiGuy said:
Israel knew that Hamas would eventually do something, and Netanyahu allowed it to happen. Does it not seem weird that the strongest intelligence agency in the world, that is surveilling at region 24/7 and controls the borders of it, doesn't know an attack was being planned? There were plenty of warning signs and they were ignored. Add in the facts that Netanyahu was funding Hamas and helped block elections from happening and it makes it more obvious. He might not have known the scale of the attack, or that it would occur the same time a music festival was happening, but he knew something was coming. He had the built in excuse to do what he did. Also, after their response started, wasn't it strange that Netanyahu and his far right goons turned down ceasefire after ceasefire agreement, but then abruptly did a 180 once Trump promised them the land and they accepted the same deal that was offered nearly a year earlier? Also, add in the fact that they were purposefully demolishing Gaza block by block. There were empty areas and they would just level them. The signs were there the whole time, but some chose to ignore them.
And, I'm saying it now. This isn't over. Israel is only getting started. It's all part of their plan to take over the land and wipe out the Palestinians from there.
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Isreal needed a trigger that would make the rest of the world accept their plans.
 
RaiGuy said:
Israel knew that Hamas would eventually do something, and Netanyahu allowed it to happen. Does it not seem weird that the strongest intelligence agency in the world, that is surveilling at region 24/7 and controls the borders of it, doesn't know an attack was being planned? There were plenty of warning signs and they were ignored. Add in the facts that Netanyahu was funding Hamas and helped block elections from happening and it makes it more obvious. He might not have known the scale of the attack, or that it would occur the same time a music festival was happening, but he knew something was coming. He had the built in excuse to do what he did. Also, after their response started, wasn't it strange that Netanyahu and his far right goons turned down ceasefire after ceasefire agreement, but then abruptly did a 180 once Trump promised them the land and they accepted the same deal that was offered nearly a year earlier? Also, add in the fact that they were purposefully demolishing Gaza block by block. There were empty areas and they would just level them. The signs were there the whole time, but some chose to ignore them.
And, I'm saying it now. This isn't over. Israel is only getting started. It's all part of their plan to take over the land and wipe out the Palestinians from there.
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Ahhh, the old conspiracy angle. Kind of like how people believe that 9/11 was a secret evil plot by GWB. Not really convincing, sorry. And, to quote your post earlier, reeks of "blaming the victim."

With regard to the cease fire "offer" that Hamas proposed in the aftermath of the attack: Hamas realized that they fucked up and wanted to get out scott free with an "oopsie, we killed over 1,000 of your people in a single day, please don't retaliate in any way." That was never going to be an option.
 
duluoz said:
To refer to 10/7 as the “start” of anything in some kind of vacuum is asinine. If you don’t grasp that, there’s no point in me or anyone engaging with you further.
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To argue that 10/8 happens without 10/7 is peak head-in-the-sand mindset. I agree, no sense to engage any further with that kind of revisionist lunacy.
 
finesse said:
The date was uncertain but they started the plot with the pagers some time ago. I think that Israel had figured that if they kept pushing them around enough that they would do something like what happened out of desperation which would give them the excuse to do all this. So I feel sure that the date was totally coincidental.
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Israel was paying Hamas to essentially keep the peace and not do anything stupid. Hamas couldn't even do that right. Israel probably would have tolerated a suicide bombing or continued rocket attacks with limited reprisals, but with something the scale of 10/7 there was no way that Israel could do anything other than a major response.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Israel was paying Hamas to essentially keep the peace and not do anything stupid. Hamas couldn't even do that right. Israel probably would have tolerated a suicide bombing or continued rocket attacks with limited reprisals, but with something the scale of 10/7 there was no way that Israel could do anything other than a major response.
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Hamas was trying to start WWIII plain and simple.
 
It seems apparent, if not inevitable, that Netanyahu's strategy of propping up Hamas to sideline Al Fatah was misguided. In my opinion, that doesn't make him culpable for 10/7 any more than America is responsible for 9/11 because we placed our soldiers in Saudi Arabia to defend against Saddam.

But all of that discussion is a non-sequitur to what Trump is proposing. You can't move 2 million people out of their homeland Cherokee Nation style. The rest of the world isn't going to go for it, and it allows our enemies to argue with good reason that America is a bad faith participant in the process simply for making the suggestion.
 
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ZZLPHeels said:
Israel was paying Hamas to essentially keep the peace and not do anything stupid. Hamas couldn't even do that right. Israel probably would have tolerated a suicide bombing or continued rocket attacks with limited reprisals, but with something the scale of 10/7 there was no way that Israel could do anything other than a major response.
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Didn't Israel consider Hamas a terror group prior to 10/7? If so, then why continue to fund them? It would be similar to the US paying the Alqaeda to "keep the peace" and then act shocked when they commit a violent act. Instead of funding them, they could have allowed the Palestinians to have proper elections and Hamas would have been removed from power. But again, Netanyahu didn't want that. He wanted to continue to feed the wild pitbull and wait for it to attack.
 
RaiGuy said:
Didn't Israel consider Hamas a terror group prior to 10/7? If so, then why continue to fund them? It would be similar to the US paying the Alqaeda to "keep the peace" and then act shocked when they commit a violent act. Instead of funding them, they could have allowed the Palestinians to have proper elections and Hamas would have been removed from power. But again, Netanyahu didn't want that. He wanted to continue to feed the wild pitbull and wait for it to attack.
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There are two known reasons that Israel funded Hamas prior to 10/7:

1. Keep the Palestinians divided by fostering competition between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.

2. Keep Hamas from doing anything stupid.

You can argue that these reasons were misguided or naive, but there is no scenario in which Hamas was paid by Israel to attack Israel. Also pretty bold of you to assume that Hamas would have been removed from power by the very people that overwhelmingly elected them and put them in power in the first place.
 
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UNCatTech said:
Exactly the details matter, I really doubt that trump's plan is to build them nice houses when they are resettled.
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It’s not. He just wants them to get the hell out of Gaza. After that, he doesn’t give a shit where they go. And he sure as shit isn’t going to chip in to help them move or build this new utopia that some on this board think is going to just spring out of the desert.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
There are two known reasons that Israel funded Hamas prior to 10/7:

1. Keep the Palestinians divided by fostering competition between Hamas and the PLO.

2. Keep Hamas from doing anything stupid.

You can argue that these reasons were misguided or naive, but there is no scenario in which Hamas was paid by Israel to attack Israel. Also pretty bold of you to assume that Hamas would have been removed from power by the very people that overwhelmingly elected them and put them in power in the first place.
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What do you expect an organization that you consider a terrorist group to do when you fund them and at the same time have them trapped in an open air prison?
Also, the last elections happened nearly 20 years ago. Half the population wasn't even born. It's not a bold chance to think the population has changed it's mind, especially when Hamas had reverted to its old ways and instead of the promises it gives. Why do we have elections every 2 years here? Should we assume that people won't change their views because they voted a certain way in a previous election?
 
RaiGuy said:
What do you expect an organization that you consider a terrorist group to do when you fund them and at the same time have them trapped in an open air prison?
Also, the last elections happened nearly 20 years ago. Half the population wasn't even born. It's not a bold chance to think the population has changed it's mind, especially when Hamas had reverted to its old ways and instead of the promises it gives. Why do we have elections every 2 years here? Should we assume that people won't change their views because they voted a certain way in a previous election?
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Open-air prison? Prior to 10/7 Israel didn't control all of Gaza's borders. Access into Israel was controlled, but what about Egypt?

I don't think it is bold to assume that Hamas would remain the elected authority in Gaza if elections were held in 2020. After all, Hamas has violently shut down any political opposition in Gaza in the past. The Palestinians may or may not have wanted Hamas to remain in power, but it isn't like Hamas was going to give them any other options?
 
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