U.S. Budget Negotiations

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superrific said:
All right. This is not the case. You can disagree with the decision -- and I do, provisionally -- but the idea that the Dems don't care is absurd. They have had multiple meetings this week, and by all accounts the meetings were heated.

Schumer is the majority leader, not some military general. If there are seven members who want to vote for the CR, what can he do? Fetterman already said he would.

I say that I provisionally disagree because I don't know the whole story. I think Schumer's story makes sense. My intuition is to emulate McConnell, as he was clearly an effective minority leader. But we also don't know what the Senators are hearing from people who are more informed as to the damage caused by the shutdown, the vulnerabilities of important Dem groups, what Vought has planned next, etc.

It's also true that there's a debt ceiling deadline coming up, and maybe Dems will stand strong there. And don't say, "yeah right" because the two situations are different. There are good reasons to cave on the CR and take up the fight for the debt ceiling.
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I get it. I do. But don't stand up and tell us that the Democrats will not support cloture and then less than 24 hours capitulate. I'm pretty damn sure that whatever he thinks that Trump and Musk were going to do with a shutdown didn't magically appear less than 24 hours from the vote. Don't tell me one thing and then completely do something different. Make the argument to the American people and let us decide. Tell me the reasons why you think that a shutdown would be so much worse. The entire Democratic party seems to be in tatters. There is NO coherent strategy for dealing with the carnage that Trump and Musk are dealing out. I'm sick and tired of waking every day to the shit show that is this administration and feeling like my elected officials don't know what the hell they are doing. I'm a veteran who's utilizing the Pell Grant and my Gi Bill benefits to finish my degree and now I can't update my FAFSA application. My oldest and my wife and also the beneficiaries of a Pell Grant and we are worried about the future.
 
tarheel931 said:
I get it. I do. But don't stand up and tell us that the Democrats will not support cloture and then less than 24 hours capitulate. I'm pretty damn sure that whatever he thinks that Trump and Musk were going to do with a shutdown didn't magically appear less than 24 hours from the vote. Don't tell me one thing and then completely do something different. Make the argument to the American people and let us decide. Tell me the reasons why you think that a shutdown would be so much worse. The entire Democratic party seems to be in tatters. There is NO coherent strategy for dealing with the carnage that Trump and Musk are dealing out. I'm sick and tired of waking every day to the shit show that is this administration and feeling like my elected officials don't know what the hell they are doing. I'm a veteran who's utilizing the Pell Grant and my Gi Bill benefits to finish my degree and now I can't update my FAFSA application. My oldest and my wife and also the beneficiaries of a Pell Grant and we are worried about the future.
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I feel your pain, man. I do. And you're not wrong about the consistency in messaging. The whipsaw effect is real. But they have been communicating as to why they fear a shutdown, and if you don't like their explanations, I've provided some that are hopefully better and more clearly explained.

The main reason there's no coherent strategy is because a) our system was not designed to accommodate a president who is actively trying to hurt the United States, and b) the Republicans control everything right now. There's no strategy out there. It's like a #16 playing a #1 seed. You can have the best coach in the world, but what the fuck could Prairie View ever have done against Hans/Lawson?

I am worried about the future also. We all are. But "do something" is not a plan and it's not necessarily helpful.

The reason that I think the debt ceiling is the better fight is that it's something the billionaires in Trump's cabinet would be horrified to see, not to mention the rich GOPers in Congress. Think Dave McCormick wants to light his billions on fire in a total market collapse? Here, I think the problem is that the GOP is indifferent at best to the government staying open, which is why the Dems don't REALLY have any leverage.

The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is to tell everyone you know how Trump is fucking with you. Tell the MAGAs and the fence sitters. Give them a concrete example: because of the GOP, my college education is in danger. All I want is to work hard, get a degree, and provide for my family, and Trump is fucking that up. Put a human face on the carnage in the hopes that some of them will wake the fuck up.
 


“… The New York lawmaker and nine other members of the Democratic caucus broke with most of their party on a procedural vote for $1.7 trillion funding measure, moving it forward on a 62-to-38 tally, above the required 60-vote threshold for most bills to clear the Senate. One Republican, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, voted no. …”
 
Am I correct that Schumer's explanation was that to shut the government down would hand Republicans too much power to cut innocent Federal Employees? And that there was nothing to gain by shutting down? Lessor of two bad choices?

And that Democrats would get blamed for not caving?

Well yes, Trump would have used it to do bad things. No argument there. But all Democrats had to do was point out that it would be Trump's choice to do the bad things. Frankly, as bad as the results of what Trump would have done would have been...........it would have been messaging gold for the Democrats. If Schumer wasn't able to use the gold, then what does that say?
 
BlueSmoke said:
Am I correct that Schumer's explanation was that to shut the government down would hand Republicans too much power to cut innocent Federal Employees? And that there was nothing to gain by shutting down? Lessor of two bad choices?

And that Democrats would get blamed for not caving?

Well yes, Trump would have used it to do bad things. No argument there. But all Democrats had to do was point out that it would be Trump's choice to do the bad things. Frankly, as bad as the results of what Trump would have done would have been...........it would have been messaging gold for the Democrats. If Schumer wasn't able to use the gold, then what does that say?
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Schumer would fumble a 4 ace hand.
 
tarheel931 said:
I am so sick and tired of the Democratic Party. Chuck Schumer has got to be the biggest, spineless twat waffle. Trump basically dared them to do it. He knows when push comes to shove the Democrats will cave. Why the hell are they asking us not to give in when they continually keep taking it and then begging for more? It's hard to maintain any sort of will to fight when your elected officials just roll over and capitulate every damn time. I don't have the energy to give a shit when they clearly don't give a damn.
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The Orange Bully will simply run the same power play again and again. Schumer is SO WEAK.
 
My husband have been arguing about how to handle this for at least six weeks and I consistently argued against a filibuster shutdown for most of the reasons that Schumer ultimately articulated.

That said, his handling of getting from the House passage to this vote was political malpractice. He is not up to the job anymore and needs replaced even though I think this is the correct strategic decision.
 
Calheel said:
Agreed. But Republicans are duke. They are a 10 point favorite. Hoping for some portal additions in 2026.
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There won't be a country left.

OTOH, Ol Roy spent years keeping his best players out of the NBA to make runs...and lie to their faces about their prospects.
 
nycfan said:
My husband have been arguing about how to handle this for at least six weeks and I consistently argued against a filibuster shutdown for most of the reasons that Schumer ultimately articulated.

That said, his handling of getting from the House passage to this vote was political malpractice. He is not up to the job anymore and needs replaced even though I think this is the correct strategic decision.
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Strongly disagree. You can't let illegal Executive overreach get codified. HUGE mistake. Dems are going to get run over for 2 more years.

The people need LEADERSHIP. Dems should mutiny and overthrow Milquetoast Schumer for Mark Kelly ASAP.

I'm forced to post the best scene from The American President again:

 
nycfan said:
My husband have been arguing about how to handle this for at least six weeks and I consistently argued against a filibuster shutdown for most of the reasons that Schumer ultimately articulated.

That said, his handling of getting from the House passage to this vote was political malpractice. He is not up to the job anymore and needs replaced even though I think this is the correct strategic decision.
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There's tactics and then there is winning the game. Hate to say it, but the quicker Trump way overreaches might be the best way to win the game in the end. Although, I certainly get its an unpleasant call.
 
BlueSmoke said:
There's tactics and then there is winning the game. Hate to say it, but the quicker Trump way overreaches might be the best way to win the game in the end. Although, I certainly get its an unpleasant call.
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Correct. You Play to Win the Game.

Schumer is LOSING. Biden's campaign manager was forced on Kamala (she could have refused her) and Trump is clowining Schumer again. He's such a chump. OPTICS gdit!
 
I can not deny Shumers basic premise that Congress shutting down would give orangeturd way more power
 
mpaer said:
I can not deny Shumers basic premise that Congress shutting down would give orangeturd way more power
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Disagree. He's already doing what he wants and disregarding Congress anyway.

What is the most stupid is people like Fetterman openly saying "I will never vote to shut down the government" which is a great way of confirming to Pubs that there is no reason they have to even consider working with Dems on the terms of any future continuing resolution.
 
BlueSmoke said:
There's tactics and then there is winning the game. Hate to say it, but the quicker Trump way overreaches might be the best way to win the game in the end. Although, I certainly get its an unpleasant call.
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This has been my position for a few months now.
 
rodoheel said:
Disagree. He's already doing what he wants and disregarding Congress anyway.

What is the most stupid is people like Fetterman openly saying "I will never vote to shut down the government" which is a great way of confirming to Pubs that there is no reason they have to even consider working with Dems on the terms of any future continuing resolution.
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Gotcha
 
What's the obsession with Mark Kelly? He was one of those pushing the "advance the CR" position for a week before flipping to no at the last minute.
 
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