U.S. Budget & OBBB | OCT 1 - Gov’t Shutdown Begins

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Icky Mettle said:
Is there video of him saying that? If so, Dems should put that out there as an ad. Play it on any platform the masses watch. Play it during football games.
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Yes. Of course he was said this when Obama was president. I’m sure he “takes no responsibility at all,” now that it is under his watch.
 
superrific said:
Nah. Income inequality shrunk in the 60s, and the Gini coefficient stayed flat -- and way lower than it is today.

I mean, obviously there was racial inequality and gender inequality, but those aren't economic factors per se, and they aren't what sparked the Great Society.

Remember: Kennedy won the election in 60 and then LBJ in 64 and only then did the Great Society start, in 65. I guess he was talking about it on the campaign trail in 64 but it didn't start in earnest until after that. And LBJ was definitely NOT running against his own administration.

The 60s were probably the biggest boom time in the entire 20th century. And it did lift most boats, per Kennedy's famous maxim.
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I wasn't a gleam in anyone's eye in the 60s so I'll defer to you on that, but the thesis of Johnson's most famous Great Society speech was: "The Great Society rests on abundance and liberty for all. It demands an end to poverty and racial injustice, to which we are totally committed in our time."

teachingamericanhistory.org

Great Society Speech

The Great Society, the largest expansion of the welfare state since the New Deal, was the idea of President Lyndon Johnson.
teachingamericanhistory.org teachingamericanhistory.org

I read that as we're going to attend to the economic distress of those who have been left behind in the post-war economic boom. Which feels highly relevant today.
 
UNCBAdookJD said:
Except he is because that is not in the Democrats competing funding bill that was rejected or in any of the demands made by Dems. Whatever plans people proposed in runs 4+ years ago are irrelevant to the shutdown today.
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And how many of those guys are even in Congress right now? Two?
And how many of them are democrats? One?
 
lawtig02 said:
I wasn't a gleam in anyone's eye in the 60s so I'll defer to you on that, but the thesis of Johnson's most famous Great Society speech was: "The Great Society rests on abundance and liberty for all. It demands an end to poverty and racial injustice, to which we are totally committed in our time."

teachingamericanhistory.org

Great Society Speech

The Great Society, the largest expansion of the welfare state since the New Deal, was the idea of President Lyndon Johnson.
teachingamericanhistory.org teachingamericanhistory.org

I read that as we're going to attend to the economic distress of those who have been left behind in the post-war economic boom. Which feels highly relevant today.
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Yes, exactly my point. It was because we were now wealthy that we didn't have to tolerate such economic injustice. It wasn't like the New Deal, where we had to do social programs because we had suddenly become poor. The economy was strong, and LBJ wanted to leverage that strength to take care of marginalized people -- the elderly (at the time), the homeless, the inner city residents whose housing stock was absolute shit, etc.

That the economic gains were broad-based doesn't mean they went to *everyone.* The impetus, though, was the idea that we could afford to help our fellow man now that the common man, as the saying goes, can work a day and come home to t-bone steak.
 
Dems will likely cave by Monday as it may finally be dawning on them that the shut down gives Trump even more power over the Federal government than when it is open. I hope they don't cave because, next week, Trump unleashes Russ Vought to start slashing government, discretionary spending and firing workers in agencies Dems like, while fully funding agencies Trump likes. Ouch.

If you wonder why long time conservatives put up with a lot of Trump's "s*it" then look no further than where we are in this moment. The Dems walked straight into a trap with no leverage and no exit strategy. Trump is now going to finally be able to reduce the size and scope of government like no other President has been able to achieve, including Reagan. Vought, unlike Musk, is a professional at this and knows the federal budget backwards and forwards and knows where the bodies are buried. He's waited his whole life for this moment. If discretionary spending is slashed through this process then Trump will have achieved what spending hawks like Paul Ryan could only have ever dreamed of achieving.

The Dems best out of this is for 5 more members to quickly cave. Even with that exit, the left base is going to be even madder with Schumer & Dollar Store Obama for being so feckless and weak. All this for 7 weeks of CR.
 
Ramrouser said:
I hope they don't cave because, next week, Trump unleashes Russ Vought to start slashing government, discretionary spending and firing workers in agencies Dems like, while fully funding agencies Trump likes.

Trump is now going to finally be able to reduce the size and scope of government like no other President has been able to achieve, including Reagan. Vought, unlike Musk, is a professional at this and knows the federal budget backwards and forwards and knows where the bodies are buried. He's waited his whole life for this moment. If discretionary spending is slashed through this process then Trump will have achieved what spending hawks like Paul Ryan could only have ever dreamed of achieving.
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Fingers crossed.
 
Ramrouser said:
Dems will likely cave by Monday as it may finally be dawning on them that the shut down gives Trump even more power over the Federal government than when it is open. I hope they don't cave because, next week, Trump unleashes Russ Vought to start slashing government, discretionary spending and firing workers in agencies Dems like, while fully funding agencies Trump likes. Ouch.

If you wonder why long time conservatives put up with a lot of Trump's "s*it" then look no further than where we are in this moment. The Dems walked straight into a trap with no leverage and no exit strategy. Trump is now going to finally be able to reduce the size and scope of government like no other President has been able to achieve, including Reagan. Vought, unlike Musk, is a professional at this and knows the federal budget backwards and forwards and knows where the bodies are buried. He's waited his whole life for this moment. If discretionary spending is slashed through this process then Trump will have achieved what spending hawks like Paul Ryan could only have ever dreamed of achieving.

The Dems best out of this is for 5 more members to quickly cave. Even with that exit, the left base is going to be even madder with Schumer & Dollar Store Obama for being so feckless and weak. All this for 7 weeks of CR.
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Donald here thinks Americans voted for Paul Ryan’s dream budget. News flash: nobody outside Heritage and K Street wants mass layoffs and gutted services. People are screaming about rent, healthcare, and groceries. By all means, Republicans, tie your whole party to a fucking egghead like Vought.
 
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Ramrouser said:
Dems will likely cave by Monday as it may finally be dawning on them that the shut down gives Trump even more power over the Federal government than when it is open. I hope they don't cave because, next week, Trump unleashes Russ Vought to start slashing government, discretionary spending and firing workers in agencies Dems like, while fully funding agencies Trump likes. Ouch.

If you wonder why long time conservatives put up with a lot of Trump's "s*it" then look no further than where we are in this moment. The Dems walked straight into a trap with no leverage and no exit strategy. Trump is now going to finally be able to reduce the size and scope of government like no other President has been able to achieve, including Reagan. Vought, unlike Musk, is a professional at this and knows the federal budget backwards and forwards and knows where the bodies are buried. He's waited his whole life for this moment. If discretionary spending is slashed through this process then Trump will have achieved what spending hawks like Paul Ryan could only have ever dreamed of achieving.

The Dems best out of this is for 5 more members to quickly cave. Even with that exit, the left base is going to be even madder with Schumer & Dollar Store Obama for being so feckless and weak. All this for 7 weeks of CR.
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And republicans will cheer until they find out that they would be negatively affected as well. More bellyaching about, “I feel betrayed. I didn’t know he was going to hurt ME!”
 
Ramrouser said:
Dems will likely cave by Monday as it may finally be dawning on them that the shut down gives Trump even more power over the Federal government than when it is open. I hope they don't cave because, next week, Trump unleashes Russ Vought to start slashing government, discretionary spending and firing workers in agencies Dems like, while fully funding agencies Trump likes. Ouch.

If you wonder why long time conservatives put up with a lot of Trump's "s*it" then look no further than where we are in this moment. The Dems walked straight into a trap with no leverage and no exit strategy. Trump is now going to finally be able to reduce the size and scope of government like no other President has been able to achieve, including Reagan. Vought, unlike Musk, is a professional at this and knows the federal budget backwards and forwards and knows where the bodies are buried. He's waited his whole life for this moment. If discretionary spending is slashed through this process then Trump will have achieved what spending hawks like Paul Ryan could only have ever dreamed of achieving.
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1. What Vought is doing is clearly, inarguably illegal and unconstitutional. You have an ethical duty not to cheer on such things. Alas, you opened the door.

2. Every bit of that spending is someone's livelihood and/or profession. You are so cavalier about taking it away from them unconstitutionally. This is why I asked you whether you'd be willing to forfeit your bar license when the shit hits the fan. It's fun if it happens to someone else.

This is why I encourage liberals to come down hard on MAGA when we have the chance. You, who cheer on these illegal deprivations, must suffer one yourself and perhaps you will not be so enthusiastic about taking from other people. If it was up to me, I'd strip your bar license just on principle. Just for you to taste the consequences that you like to unleash on others. And since you don't care about legality, I wouldn't listen to your complaints about that. To cite a common legal maxim you've likely forgotten: he who seeks equity must come with clean hands.

3. A proximate cause of our present fascism is that white southerners have never felt the consequences of their misdeeds. Your forebears committed crimes against humanity and got off more or less scot-free. You implemented a system of segregation that harmed millions and you never had to answer for it.

You've been molly-coddled too long. Sherman had the right idea. I don't want to slash and burn your land, but feeling personal consequences is the only thing that motivates you. So be it.
 
lawtig02 said:
I wasn't a gleam in anyone's eye in the 60s so I'll defer to you on that, but the thesis of Johnson's most famous Great Society speech was: "The Great Society rests on abundance and liberty for all. It demands an end to poverty and racial injustice, to which we are totally committed in our time."

teachingamericanhistory.org

Great Society Speech

The Great Society, the largest expansion of the welfare state since the New Deal, was the idea of President Lyndon Johnson.
teachingamericanhistory.org teachingamericanhistory.org

I read that as we're going to attend to the economic distress of those who have been left behind in the post-war economic boom. Which feels highly relevant today.
Click to expand...
You could have just said "I want lots of Redistribution of Wealth" and saved yourself some time and effort.
 
Ramrouser said:
If you wonder why long time conservatives put up with a lot of Trump's "s*it" then look no further than where we are in this moment. The Dems walked straight into a trap with no leverage and no exit strategy. Trump is now going to finally be able to reduce the size and scope of government like no other President has been able to achieve, including Reagan. Vought, unlike Musk, is a professional at this and knows the federal budget backwards and forwards and knows where the bodies are buried. He's waited his whole life for this moment. If discretionary spending is slashed through this process then Trump will have achieved what spending hawks like Paul Ryan could only have ever dreamed of achieving.

The Dems best out of this is for 5 more members to quickly cave. Even with that exit, the left base is going to be even madder with Schumer & Dollar Store Obama for being so feckless and weak. All this for 7 weeks of CR.
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If this is how this all works out, I will be able to say all of Trump's BS (to date any way) may have been worth it. Not since Clinton has there been a legit decrease in government size and have we been close to a balanced budget.

I hate Trump, but I hope he pulls this off.
 
ZenMode said:
If this is how this all works out, I will be able to say all of Trump's BS (to date any way) may have been worth it. Not since Clinton has there been a legit decrease in government size and have we been close to a balanced budget.

I hate Trump, but I hope he pulls this off.
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Leaving aside the question of whether it's actually good to massively slash the federal workforce, even if Trump fires 95% of the (non-military) federal workforce he isn't going to get anywhere close to a balanced budget. His tax cuts for the rich helped make sure of that.
 
rodoheel said:
Leaving aside the question of whether it's actually good to massively slash the federal workforce, even if Trump fires 95% of the (non-military) federal workforce he isn't going to get anywhere close to a balanced budget. His tax cuts for the rich helped make sure of that.
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Yah, probably true. I was just making the point that no President has actually put real effort into cutting costs or balancing the budget.

It's not impossible that the tariffs help to balance the ridiculous tax cuts.

I don't support tariffs, but that's beside the point...
 
ZenMode said:
You could have just said "I want lots of Redistribution of Wealth" and saved yourself some time and effort.
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Well, if Trump’s going to give $10 billion of my tax dollars to farmers who voted for him to destroy their markets, I’m good with redistributing some wealth to help people who did not choose the circumstances that are causing them to struggle.
 
Ramrouser said:
Dems will likely cave by Monday as it may finally be dawning on them that the shut down gives Trump even more power over the Federal government than when it is open. I hope they don't cave because, next week, Trump unleashes Russ Vought to start slashing government, discretionary spending and firing workers in agencies Dems like, while fully funding agencies Trump likes. Ouch.

If you wonder why long time conservatives put up with a lot of Trump's "s*it" then look no further than where we are in this moment. The Dems walked straight into a trap with no leverage and no exit strategy. Trump is now going to finally be able to reduce the size and scope of government like no other President has been able to achieve, including Reagan. Vought, unlike Musk, is a professional at this and knows the federal budget backwards and forwards and knows where the bodies are buried. He's waited his whole life for this moment. If discretionary spending is slashed through this process then Trump will have achieved what spending hawks like Paul Ryan could only have ever dreamed of achieving.

The Dems best out of this is for 5 more members to quickly cave. Even with that exit, the left base is going to be even madder with Schumer & Dollar Store Obama for being so feckless and weak. All this for 7 weeks of CR.
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I mean, yeah, this is basically what many of us have said about conservatives all along - that you are happy to indulge any amount of corruption (as long as the beneficiaries are people like you) and authoritarianism (as long as the authoritarian is a person like you) and deprivation of civil liberties (as long as the victims are not people like you) in exchange for your precious tax cuts and government cuts/deregulation. It's nice to have confirmation of that though.
 
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