superrific
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How's this prediction holding up? Oh.
U.S. destroys Venezuelan vessels | Hegseth sidelines the lawyers
- Thread starter nycfan
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President Trump’s War on Cartels
“… The U.S. first destroyed a boat that officials said was carrying 11 gang members, all of whom were killed. Trump posted a video of the explosion on social media. There were two more strikes that month, each of which killed three people.
He says he’s targeting Venezuela’s gangs because they bring dangerous drugs into the U.S.
Experts say there is some truth to that: Lots of cocaine flows through Venezuela, according to a report by the State Department.
But Venezuela is far from the biggest player in the region. Colombia produces much more cocaine. Most of the cocaine entering the U.S. comes through the Pacific, not the Caribbean, my colleague Genevieve Glatsky wrote. And the most destructive drug in the U.S., fentanyl, comes almost entirely from Mexico.
Maduro says Trump’s real goal is to force regime change — which Trump’s secretary of state, Marco Rubio, has openly pushed for. “We’re not going to have a cartel, operating or masquerading as a government, operating in our own hemisphere,” Rubio told Fox News.
…
It’s illegal for the military to target civilians who are not directly participating in “hostilities” — a legal term signifying an armed conflict. Selling a dangerous product is different from an armed attack, said Geoffrey Corn, who once served as the Army’s senior adviser for law-of-war issues.
“This is not stretching the envelope,” Corn told The Times. “This is shredding it. This is tearing it apart.”…”
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For reference, a significant majority of drug overdose deaths in the U.S. are attributed to opioids, though Coke ODs are substantial and rising.
nida.nih.gov
Drug Overdose Deaths: Facts and Figures | National Institute on Drug Abuse
See facts and figures on overdose deaths as reported by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
lawtig02
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He has no fucking clue what was on that boat, and now we'll never know.
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Good lord, according to those numbers, opioids and cocaine accounted for 97.4% of all overdose deaths in 2023. I mean, I figured those two would account for the lion's share of OD's, but I didn't think it would be anywhere that high. On a more comforting note, I guess this means that all other illicit drugs combined only accounted for 2782 total OD deaths in 2023. Pretty good case for legalization of everything besides opioids and coke if you ask me...For reference, a significant majority of drug overdose deaths in the U.S. are attributed to opioids, though Coke ODs are substantial and rising.
Drug Overdose Deaths: Facts and Figures | National Institute on Drug Abuse
See facts and figures on overdose deaths as reported by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
superrific
Master of the ZZLverse
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Overdose deaths are not the only harm
How the heck is a little motor boat somehow going to make it into American territory all the way from Venezuela. Even Puerto Rico is 1,300 nautical miles from Venezuela. I'm not aware of any boat that size that has a 1,300 nautical mile range. Are there floating gas stations in the middle of the Caribbean Sea?
lawtig02
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Yeah, my understanding is that most of these boats, to the extent they're actually carrying drugs, are likely headed to Trinidad & Tobago, which is a major drug trafficking hub for Europe, not for the US.
Callatoroy
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I thought designating the cartels as terrorist organizations was the way around the envelope.President Trump’s War on Cartels
“… The U.S. first destroyed a boat that officials said was carrying 11 gang members, all of whom were killed. Trump posted a video of the explosion on social media. There were two more strikes that month, each of which killed three people.
He says he’s targeting Venezuela’s gangs because they bring dangerous drugs into the U.S.
Experts say there is some truth to that: Lots of cocaine flows through Venezuela, according to a report by the State Department.
But Venezuela is far from the biggest player in the region. Colombia produces much more cocaine. Most of the cocaine entering the U.S. comes through the Pacific, not the Caribbean, my colleague Genevieve Glatsky wrote. And the most destructive drug in the U.S., fentanyl, comes almost entirely from Mexico.
Maduro says Trump’s real goal is to force regime change — which Trump’s secretary of state, Marco Rubio, has openly pushed for. “We’re not going to have a cartel, operating or masquerading as a government, operating in our own hemisphere,” Rubio told Fox News.
…
It’s illegal for the military to target civilians who are not directly participating in “hostilities” — a legal term signifying an armed conflict. Selling a dangerous product is different from an armed attack, said Geoffrey Corn, who once served as the Army’s senior adviser for law-of-war issues.
“This is not stretching the envelope,” Corn told The Times. “This is shredding it. This is tearing it apart.”…”
ChileG
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Any reasonable person must conclude that Trump is doing this for an entirely different reason than the one stated.
I welcome our board republicans to either refute what I said above or tell me why you think Trump is actually blowing up these ship, if you think it is legal, and if you support it.
Callatoroy
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1. He campaigned on designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations so the US could directly go after them as the previous efforts at combatting drug smuggling into the US was ineffective and the help from the home countries of the cartels was spotty.
2. This is an easy win for trump and gives him something to act tough over and is a political win among voters. Who doesn't support blowing up drug smugglers? Doesn't matter if we know whether they are in fact drug smugglers or not. Most voters will never question it and just assume that what they were told is true.
3. I support blowing up drug smugglers if in fact they are drug smugglers but I want transparency and some evidence of proof beyond a televised PC or twitter post.
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Re: item 3, to be clear, are you saying that you support extrajudicial killings by the military for an alleged non-capital crime?
Callatoroy
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No. I'm saying that until the courts rule that military action against a terrorist organization is unlawful, I'm ok with going after drug cartels that have been designated as terrorist organizations. Don't mistake that as blind trust or that all rules be damned. Its a murky legal issue that I don't think has been officially decided. I haven't looked at any polls but I would be surprised if most Americans didn't support going after drug cartels where identity and guilt isn't in question. I recognize the slippery slope. But the longer they go unchecked by their home corrupt g'ments and the 1 hand tied behind the back the US has been contrained by, the more power they obtain.
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Shouldn't even drug smugglers get due process? I could understand if these were armed enemy combatants in war, but drug smugglers don't fit this profile. Also, what is the evidence that they were drug smugglers? Where were they going? What was their cargo? Apparently, now we'll never know.
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