U.S. destroys Venezuelan vessels | Trump declares airspace over Venezuela closed

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ZZLPHeels said:
Funny, isn't the commander in chief of the military the same guy who made fun of POWs and who called our WWI casualties losers? I wonder who has more respect for the military, the guy that said all of those things and then used bone spurs to get out of military service, or 6 distinguished veterans of the military.
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What I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with Trump.
 
ZenMode said:
What I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with Trump.
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Sure it does. Who is the Commander in Chief who launched a failed insurrection again? Who has posited using the military to shoot protesters in American streets? Who would be the one to give the troops illegal orders in the future? It has everything to do with Trump. Without Trump, such a message would not have been needed.
 
bassydude77 said:
My brother-in-law is Venezuelan. His parents still live there. He and his family want nothing more than for Trump to takeout Maduro.
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The only silver lining I had when Trump came into power and appointed Rubio, was that I knew Rubio would go hard after Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua.

In a very unnerving case of ends justify the means, I would love to see the Maduro regime fall. Venezuela has been the economic lifeline for Cuba and Nicaragua. If they fall, I could see Ortega also lose power eventually. Cuba will be a harder nut to crack.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Sure it does. Who is the Commander in Chief who launched a failed insurrection again? Who has posited using the military to shoot protesters in American streets? Who would be the one to give the troops illegal orders in the future? It has everything to do with Trump. Without Trump, such a message would not have been needed.
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The recklessness of active members of Congress make a public statement implying that the current administration is giving illegal and unconstitutional orders has nothing to do with Trump. I could be anyone in the WH.
 
ZenMode said:
The recklessness of active members of Congress make a public statement implying that the current administration is giving illegal and unconstitutional orders has nothing to do with Trump. I could be anyone in the WH.
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It isn't anyone in the WH. It is a POTUS who launched a violent attempt to overturn the lawful results of the 2020 election, the POTUS who pardoned every single person involved in his failed coup. It is a President who has expressed a desire to have the military shoot American citizens who disagree with him. It is the greatest threat to democracy that we have experienced in in nearly two centuries. The fact that you continue to make excuses for this person and then fact that you are so troubled by soldiers being reminded of their constitutional rights is telling.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
It isn't anyone in the WH. It is a POTUS who launched a violent attempt to overturn the lawful results of the 2020 election, the POTUS who pardoned every single person involved in his failed coup. It is a President who has expressed a desire to have the military shoot American citizens who disagree with him. It is the greatest threat to democracy that we have experienced in in nearly two centuries. The fact that you continue to make excuses for this person and then fact that you are so troubled by soldiers being reminded of their constitutional rights is telling.
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We should not forget that Trump and his gremlins explicitly view USA cities as training grounds for urban and psychological warfare.
 
ChileG said:
Except that Trump is the one making the illegal orders.
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And what judicial/legal body, with the authority to do so, has made that determination?

Surely, Congress wouldn't imply the war crimes have been committed, put military personnel at risk and undermine the President based on speculation, right?
 
ZenMode said:
And what judicial/legal body, with the authority to do so, has made that determination?

Surely, Congress wouldn't imply the war crimes have been committed, put military personnel at risk and undermine the President based on speculation, right?
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Congress is currently looking into it, including many republicans that are raising the same concern.
 
ChileG said:
Congress is currently looking into it, including many republicans that are raising the same concern.
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Exactly. Nothing has been finalized, nobody has been charged, etc. So, why are members of Congress putting out public messages implying that the president is giving illegal/unconstitutional orders and implying that our military personnel are committing war crimes?
 
ZenMode said:
Exactly. Nothing has been finalized, nobody has been charged, etc. So, why are members of Congress putting out public messages implying that the president is giving illegal/unconstitutional orders and implying that our military personnel are committing war crimes?
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Because if they are committing war crimes now, then now is the time to address it.
You are the only person making the claim that Congress should wait until something is “finalized.”
 
ZenMode said:
Exactly. Nothing has been finalized, nobody has been charged, etc. So, why are members of Congress putting out public messages implying that the president is giving illegal/unconstitutional orders and implying that our military personnel are committing war crimes?
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This is an excellent point Zen.

These Democratic congressman should look to the good examples set by the Third Reich politicians. They waited until after the Nuremberg trials to condemn the Holocaust. That is the way it should be done.

Politicians should never imply that war crimes are being committed until a tribunal has made the finding first.
 
ZenMode said:
And what judicial/legal body, with the authority to do so, has made that determination?

Surely, Congress wouldn't imply the war crimes have been committed, put military personnel at risk and undermine the President based on speculation, right?
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Speculation? The admin put out videos of them blowing up non-military boats carrying non-state actors, i.e. civilians.
 
ZenMode said:
Exactly. Nothing has been finalized, nobody has been charged, etc. So, why are members of Congress putting out public messages implying that the president is giving illegal/unconstitutional orders and implying that our military personnel are committing war crimes?
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If you tell your kids “don’t do drugs”, does that mean that your kids are actively doing drugs?
 
Because it's a damned good idea for the sake of soldiers ,real Americans in general and Democrats in particular. If it galls Trump's ass as well, that's just a bonus. You can use some moisturizing cream before you kiss it.
 
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