UNC Football Catch-all | Bill Belichick Era underway

[Calheel]

I am absolutely, positively shaking with laughter at the notion that we aren't allowed to comment or critique Bill freaking Belichick (or any coach) since they must inherently know so much more about football than everyone else who doesn't professionally coach football for a living. I mean, pardon my language, but JFC. That might be the most absurd notion I have ever read on any message board ever, that you can't critique a coach because they're supposedly so much smarter than us non-coaching peons. My God.

Look, I don't get paid $10 million to coach football, but even my ignorant, imbecilic, dumbass brain can see that, for example, Gio Lopez isn't a P4 starter and certainly not worth paying LITERAL MULTIPLE MILLION DOLLARS, or that taking a QB who is decidedly NOT a pocket passer and insisting on trying to force him to become one in an NFL-style under-center offense, or that repeatedly punting on 4th and 2 from plus territory, or that you shouldn't call timeouts or coach your players to run out of bounds when trying to prevent the other offense from getting the ball and scoring again right before half, is.....not good coaching.

Every football coach ever - even high school - knows more about football than almost every message board poster.

And yet, roughly half of all coaches are bad at coaching. Being knowledgeable at football doesn’t make you a good coach.

Messageboard posters may not be experts at why someone is failing as a coach. But they have eyes and are more than able to observe that the coaching is not working.

 

[CFordUNC]

Every football coach ever - even high school - knows more about football than almost every message board poster.

And yet, roughly half of all coaches are bad at coaching. Being knowledgeable at football doesn’t make you a good coach.

Messageboard posters may not be experts at why someone is failing as a coach. But they have eyes and are more than able to observe that the coaching is not working.

Totally agree. Very well said.

 

[grubar]

I am absolutely, positively shaking with laughter at the notion that we aren't allowed to comment or critique Bill freaking Belichick (or any coach) since they must inherently know so much more about football than everyone else who doesn't professionally coach football for a living. I mean, pardon my language, but JFC. That might be the most absurd notion I have ever read on any message board ever, that you can't critique a coach because they're supposedly so much smarter than us non-coaching peons. My God.

Look, I don't get paid $10 million to coach football, but even my ignorant, imbecilic, dumbass brain can see that, for example, Gio Lopez isn't a P4 starter and certainly not worth paying LITERAL MULTIPLE MILLION DOLLARS, or that taking a QB who is decidedly NOT a pocket passer and insisting on trying to force him to become one in an NFL-style under-center offense, or that repeatedly punting on 4th and 2 from plus territory, or that you shouldn't call timeouts or coach your players to run out of bounds when trying to prevent the other offense from getting the ball and scoring again right before half, is.....not good coaching. And, for another example, you don't have to be the literal highest-paid GM in all of college football to know that you shouldn't be trying to take a class of 40+ high school recruits on which to form the core of your team, when the entire rest of the sport has figured out that you should do the exact opposite.

I will say this, based on my very own personal experience inside of a collegiate football program (the very same one I'm critiquing on this thread, incidentally!): I fully acknowledge that fans are extraordinarily rarely more knowledgeable than coaches about specific play calls or X's and O's. There is so much that goes into play calling that it would be impossible for someone who doesn't do it every single day for a living to know better the intracacies of it than the people who are paid to do it professionally. So when fans get mad because play call X didn't work, or play call Y didn't work, or play call Z used to work but now it no longer does, most of the time they don't understand that it's because the guys who are on the other side of the line of scrimmage, and the people who are paid professionaly to coach and play calls for them, did something "more" correct. That is completely different than fans, like several of us on this thread, who are analyzing overall trends and seeing that the way that UNC is currently doing some things is not at all in alignment with the way that any other highly successful college football program is doing them- and we are calling it out and critiquing it.

Well, I am happy to give you some amusement

My impression is that for many folks here the overall thinking is "JFC, this is a message board. We are ALLOWED to behave like idiots." And, that is certainly true. That is what I long ago gave up on the Tar Pit and rarely read here.

My point was/is that there are - in my view - lots of interesting football topics that might be discussed. And, sure, perhaps more are discussed here since I have long ago given up.

So, for instance, there is the matter of Gio .... Perhaps we mostly agree that he is not as good as expected, or perhaps he was a bad selection from the outset. Then, it seems to me the interesting questions concern why Bill B opts to play him rather than his wounded senior or one of his two interesting frosh, Why do we think Bill B stays with Lopez? I think that there might be a half dozen reasons, but I am not sure. That is a choice that could be discussed. (Maybe it has been)

I just am tired of football fans behaving like entitled idiots.

Another sort of example: Lombardi. I knew nothing about him before he came to Chapel Hill. But he clearly has a role that Bill B conceived of. Is he doing a good job? It seems to me that fans lack access to the knowledge one would need to answer that question. Yet, I see endless insults aimed at the guy that seem to be removed from reality or common sense.

But, as I said, I personally have given up on reading these discussions. And so perhaps I have missed some that are not childish crap

 

[GoHeelsweeeehoooo]

It's really sad how bad the ACC has become - does anyone seriously believe Virginia is the 12th best team in the country?

 

[SnoopRob]

Yet if we win out and win a bowl game the offseason hype will be insane. We will likely be preseason top 25 and all the Bill love will be back in full force.

The odds of that are like 1% now, but I’d like to see it.

I'd need to see a new OC hired before I'd get too overly excited, but other than that you can sign me up for all of it right now.

 

[Calheel]

It's really sad how bad the ACC has become - does anyone seriously believe Virginia is the 12th best team in the country?

No. They are about the 35th best team in the country. But you know how the AP works. It is basically a record ranking.

 

[Calheel]

I'd need to see a new OC hired before I'd get too overly excited, but other than that you can sign me up for all of it right now.

If we were to win out, the offense would obviously have improved. Suddenly, everyone would be talking about the genius of “complimentary football” and how our offense is perfect for the style of football Bill wants.

Again, there is almost no chance this plays out. But if it does, the fan and media story line practically writes itself.

 

[heel79]

Well, I am happy to give you some amusement

My impression is that for many folks here the overall thinking is "JFC, this is a message board. We are ALLOWED to behave like idiots." And, that is certainly true. That is what I long ago gave up on the Tar Pit and rarely read here.

My point was/is that there are - in my view - lots of interesting football topics that might be discussed. And, sure, perhaps more are discussed here since I have long ago given up.

So, for instance, there is the matter of Gio .... Perhaps we mostly agree that he is not as good as expected, or perhaps he was a bad selection from the outset. Then, it seems to me the interesting questions concern why Bill B opts to play him rather than his wounded senior or one of his two interesting frosh, Why do we think Bill B stays with Lopez? I think that there might be a half dozen reasons, but I am not sure. That is a choice that could be discussed. (Maybe it has been)

I just am tired of football fans behaving like entitled idiots.

Another sort of example: Lombardi. I knew nothing about him before he came to Chapel Hill. But he clearly has a role that Bill B conceived of. Is he doing a good job? It seems to me that fans lack access to the knowledge one would need to answer that question. Yet, I see endless insults aimed at the guy that seem to be removed from reality or common sense.

But, as I said, I personally have given up on reading these discussions. And so perhaps I have missed some that are not childish crap

Totally agree with this. When I was railing against some of the reporting immediately after Clemson, I warned about bias and lopsided reporting. I was savaged on here. I called the reporting cliched.
An interesting story/topic is why did we end up with gio. He was a third option and I do think he has been hurt much of the season. As to why BB stuck with him? I think BB believes he gives us best chance to win.
My thoughts. But to me that is interesting topic.
Instead we get BB is old, Lombo is mean, BB is distracted. On and on.
As far as second guessing BB, perhaps the greatest Xs and Is guy ever, have at it. But if we just roll eyes understand why.

 

[CFordUNC]

Well, I am happy to give you some amusement

My impression is that for many folks here the overall thinking is "JFC, this is a message board. We are ALLOWED to behave like idiots." And, that is certainly true. That is what I long ago gave up on the Tar Pit and rarely read here.

My point was/is that there are - in my view - lots of interesting football topics that might be discussed. And, sure, perhaps more are discussed here since I have long ago given up.

So, for instance, there is the matter of Gio .... Perhaps we mostly agree that he is not as good as expected, or perhaps he was a bad selection from the outset. Then, it seems to me the interesting questions concern why Bill B opts to play him rather than his wounded senior or one of his two interesting frosh, Why do we think Bill B stays with Lopez? I think that there might be a half dozen reasons, but I am not sure. That is a choice that could be discussed. (Maybe it has been)

I just am tired of football fans behaving like entitled idiots.

Another sort of example: Lombardi. I knew nothing about him before he came to Chapel Hill. But he clearly has a role that Bill B conceived of. Is he doing a good job? It seems to me that fans lack access to the knowledge one would need to answer that question. Yet, I see endless insults aimed at the guy that seem to be removed from reality or common sense.

But, as I said, I personally have given up on reading these discussions. And so perhaps I have missed some that are not childish crap

I can't agree that I've seen anyone on this board, on either "side" of the BB debate, behaving like "entitled idiots." I think the conversation has been almost entirely cordial and civil, even when folks disagree. I also don't see anyone personally attacking Bill Belichick or Michael Lombardi as people- all of the criticism is entirely about their professional aptitude. I don't see why that isn't fair game, and I certainly don't see how it makes anyone "behaving like entitled idiots" to do so.

We were told that Belichick and Lombardi were going to professionalize the whole UNC football program infrastructure. We were told that UNC was going to be "the 33rd NFL team." We were told that no opponent of UNC's was going to be able to out-coach, out-scheme, or out-execute us. We were told that Belichick and Lombardi would be able to out-smart, out-talent evaluate, and out-roster all of the other college coaches and programs simply because of their NFL pedigree.

Now that Belichick and Lombardi haven't been able to accomplish ANY of those things to date, I think critique of them is entirely justified. Nobody here WANTS UNC football to stink. Nobody here WANTS Bill Belichick to fail as UNC's football coach. We all WANT to win. There are just those of us who have seen right through all of the bluster and BS, and aren't afraid to criticize it. The easiest and quickest way to shut us up and make us eat crow is....to do the literal opposite of almost everything they've been doing thus far (with, to be fair, some notable exceptions. The defense looks legitimately good).

 

[CFordUNC]

Totally agree with this. When I was railing against some of the reporting immediately after Clemson, I warned about bias and lopsided reporting. I was savaged on here. I called the reporting cliched.
An interesting story/topic is why did we end up with gio. He was a third option and I do think he has been hurt much of the season. As to why BB stuck with him? I think BB believes he gives us best chance to win.
My thoughts. But to me that is interesting topic.
Instead we get BB is old, Lombo is mean, BB is distracted. On and on.
As far as second guessing BB, perhaps the greatest Xs and Is guy ever, have at it. But if we just roll eyes understand why.

Lolololol my man, nobody "savaged" you. Good Lord Almighty in heaven. How in the world are we supposed to be able to converse if you are always operating under the belief that people who disagree with you are "savaging" you or attacking you? Come on, man.

And....nice try...but nobody here is criticizing BB simply for being "old" or criticizing Lombardi (please for the love of God stop calling another grown man 'Lombo') for being too "mean." We are criticizing them because their roster construction sucks. Their offensive scheme sucks. Their talent evaluation sucks. Their plan for rebuilding the program by adding a 40-person HS recruiting class sucks. Their excuse-making (Lombardi's pathetic letter to donors) sucks. The results on the field relative to the financial investment being made sucks.

Hope this helps.

 

[heel79]

Lolololol my man, nobody "savaged" you. Good Lord Almighty in heaven.

And....nice try...but nobody here is criticizing BB simply for being "old" or Lombardi (please for the love of God stop calling another grown man 'Lombo') for being too "mean." We are criticizing them because their roster construction sucks. Their offensive scheme sucks. Their talent evaluation sucks. Their plan for rebuilding the program by adding a 40-person HS recruiting class sucks. Their excuse-making (Lombardi's pathetic letter to donors) sucked. Hope this helps.

BBs age is mentioned often. Lombo personality often. I was told quit shooting the messenger and people lapped up on the lies. Guess what? I was right. Made up bullshit. Timed after the Clemson debacle.

 

[stankeylegjones]

I’ve made plenty of posts about our schemes this season. You’re by all means welcome to go back and find them if you want.

I did not see anything about any schemes.

 

[stankeylegjones]

how about beating someone other than a fbs high school team ranked higher than 90th? that would be a good start. since you believe we are improving what result would you consider as a worsening vs stanford who is ranked 115th?

So, only W-L determines improvement for you? That seems very silly.

Worse play on the field would demonstrate worsening for me.

 

[stankeylegjones]

He didn’t specify, my assumption was season long.

I wonder what Gio's number would be for the last 2-3 weeks.

 

[CFordUNC]

BBs age is mentioned often. Lombo personality often. I was told quit shooting the messenger and people lapped up on the lies. Guess what? I was right. Made up bullshit. Timed after the Clemson debacle.

His age is mentioned as often as Mack Brown's was and for the exact same reasons: that old guys like them lose their fastball. Happens to everyone! Happened to JoePa. Happened to Bobby Bowden. Happened to Steve Spurrier. Hell, Nick Saban will tell you it happened to him. Happens to everyone! Any critique of Belichick's age is not an attack on him personally for being old- it is commentary that as a result of his age, and more importantly as a result of his stubborn adherence to an outdated way of doing things his way (which, incidentally got him fired from the same organization for which we won 6 Super Bowls) he has lost his fastball and his ability to be a truly effective college football coach at age 74 in an era where the college game couldn't possibly be more different than the game in which Belichick coached for decades at the pro level.

And for the love of God, please, please, PLEASE stop your one-man Don Quixote-esque tilting at media windmills. NONE of us here care about that. None of us. Only you. We have said over and over and over again that all of the media sideshow stuff is dumb and that our true critique of Belichick is the piss poor product he is putting on the field. You are the only one obsessed with and fixated on the media. All of the rest of us are commenting on the poor talent evaluation and roster construction and awful offensive strategy. Haven't seen anyone but you still talking about the N&O and WRAL.

 

[uncjhodges]

Lolololol my man, nobody "savaged" you. Good Lord Almighty in heaven. How in the world are we supposed to be able to converse if you are always operating under the belief that people who disagree with you are "savaging" you or attacking you? Come on, man.

And....nice try...but nobody here is criticizing BB simply for being "old" or Lombardi (please for the love of God stop calling another grown man 'Lombo') for being too "mean." We are criticizing them because their roster construction sucks. Their offensive scheme sucks. Their talent evaluation sucks. Their plan for rebuilding the program by adding a 40-person HS recruiting class sucks. Their excuse-making (Lombardi's pathetic letter to donors) sucks. The results on the field relative to the financial investment being made sucks.

Hope this helps.

The only people savaged were the reporters at WRAL by heel79 himself. He questioned their ethics. All people did was ask heel79 what was not true about their reporting and the best he could come up with was doubling down and complaining about national talk shows.
I’ve been impressed by the team rallying around and not quitting (though that could simply be player led imo) and the defensive performance over the past 5 halves (interesting we played much better when our best player and guy who was reported as getting preferential treatment was out)
The offense is still a mess and the QB is borderline offensive. Personally, I think not playing either of the freshman is a mistake for multiple reasons and i think Bills stubborneas on offense will always cap our ceiling in this weird rebuilding project we’re doing with a 73 year old man

 

[Peppers49]

I did not see anything about any schemes.

Sorry that you can’t figure out how to scroll through a thread or read comments then.

 

[heel79]

His age is mentioned as often as Mack Brown's was and for the exact same reasons: that old guys like them lose their fastball. Happens to everyone! Happened to JoePa. Happened to Bobby Bowden. Happened to Steve Spurrier. Hell, Nick Saban will tell you it happened to him. Happens to everyone! Any critique of Belichick's age is not an attack on him personally for being old- it is commentary that as a result of his age, and more importantly as a result of his stubborn adherence to an outdated way of doing things his way (which, incidentally got him fired from the same organization for which we won 6 Super Bowls) he has lost his fastball and his ability to be a truly effective college football coach at age 74 in an era where the college game couldn't possibly be more different than the game in which Belichick coached for decades at the pro level.

And for the love of God, please, please, PLEASE stop your one-man Don Quixote-esque tilting at media windmills. NONE of us here care about that. None of us. Only you. We have said over and over and over again that all of the media sideshow stuff is dumb and that our true critique of Belichick is the piss poor product he is putting on the field. You are the only one obsessed with and fixated on the media. All of the rest of us are commenting on the poor talent evaluation and roster construction and awful offensive strategy. Haven't seen anyone but you still talking about the N&O and WRAL.

I will write what to fuck I want to when I see media doing agenda driven reporting, especially against UNC. So fuck off .

 

[CFordUNC]

I will write what to fuck I want to when I see media doing agenda driven reporting, especially against UNC. So fuck off .

Yikes. Hope you feel better soon, man. The whole media thing clearly strikes a raw nerve for you. Feels like this response was completely unwarranted in a discussion about friggin UNC football, but if it makes you feel better, glad I could be of service.

 

[heel79]

Yikes. Hope you feel better soon, man. The whole media thing clearly strikes a raw nerve for you. Feels like this response was completely unwarranted in a discussion about friggin UNC football, but if it makes you feel better, glad I could be of service.

I'm tired of your condescending shit. I have not mentioned media in 3 weeks. Here only in the context of Grubars comment that there is an interesting story here. The how did we get here. But that requires effort and does not serve the media purpose. I don't need a fucking lecture. The media was wrong about the buyout, the vacation, coaches trying to flee, Chandler Morris, team turmoil, on and on, but you fucks lapped it up. I have not forgot 2010-17.
And because I've listened to enough doesn't mean my life is in turmoil or whatever. I got a long fuse but tired of the same old chorus. Find a new rhyme.