UNC Football Catch-all | Bill Belichick Era underway

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heel79 said:
I'm tired of your condescending shit. I have not mentioned media in 3 weeks. Here only in the context of Grubars comment that there is an interesting story here. The how did we get here. But a
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Nobody is being condescending to you. I am certainly not, or at least was not until you told me to “fuck off.” I’ve been nothing but polite and respectful to you and others with whom I disagree on this topic. In fact, just earlier today I specifically noted that I admire you personally for your glass half full optimism. If you’re not able to better control your emotions on this subject, either stop responding to me or maybe take a time out from the thread. It’s been nothing but cordial and civil between myself and everyone else until you got all in your feelings. Hope you have a great evening.

Edited to add: let me rephrase. It has never, ever been my intention to come across as condescending to you or anyone else in this conversation. I figured we were all grown adults able to disagree civilly and reasonably and without worrying about offending others’ sensibilities on a subject about which we are all deeply passionate. For anyone whom I have offended completely inadvertently, please know that I am sincerely apologetic and will be more than happy to do a better job of monitoring my posting style.
 
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CFordUNC said:
Nobody is being condescending to you. I am certainly not, or at least was not until you told me to “fuck off.” I’ve been nothing but polite and respectful to you and others with whom I disagree on this topic. In fact, just earlier today I specifically noted that I admire you personally for your glass half full optimism. If you’re not able to better control your emotions on this subject, either stop responding to me or maybe take a time out from the thread. It’s been nothing but cordial and civil between myself and everyone else until you got all in your feelings. Hope you have a great evening.

Edited to add: let me rephrase. It has never, ever been my intention to come across as condescending to you or anyone else in this conversation. I figured we were all grown adults able to disagree civilly and reasonably and without worrying about offending others’ sensibilities on a subject about which we are all deeply passionate. For anyone whom I have offended completely inadvertently, please know that I am sincerely apologetic and will be more than happy to do a better job of monitoring my posting style.
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Do you think a throwaway line about the media, the first mention in weeks, needs a full graph rant about how NOBODY wants the heat it? Talking about missing the point. Talk about something other than me.
 
heel79 said:
Do you think a throwaway line about the media, the first mention in weeks, needs a full graph rant about how NOBODY wants the heat it? Talking about missing the point. Talk about something other than me.
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You have a very extraordinarily inflated view of yourself if you think I am talking about you personally instead of about your expressed viewpoint. I hate to burst your bubble, but I don’t care about you because I don’t know you. I do care that you are posting views with which I personally disagree on a subject on which I feel both personally knowledgeable and personally passionate, and as such I am expressing my disagreement with those opinions specifically and not with you as a person. With all due respect, you should get over yourself as this main character on the ZZLP whom people “attack” personally because they disagree with you. You aren’t that important. Neither am I. This is a message board where we agree sometimes, disagree others. It’s nothing more personal than that.

Happy to leave our conversation here moving forward if you don’t feel like we are going to be able to constructively discuss our disagreements about what ails UNC football. Hope you have a great evening and enjoy the basketball game- Go Heels.
 
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heel79 said:
I'm tired of your condescending shit. I have not mentioned media in 3 weeks. Here only in the context of Grubars comment that there is an interesting story here. The how did we get here. But that requires effort and does not serve the media purpose. I don't need a fucking lecture. The media was wrong about the buyout, the vacation, coaches trying to flee, Chandler Morris, team turmoil, on and on, but you fucks lapped it up. I have not forgot 2010-17.
And because I've listened to enough doesn't mean my life is in turmoil or whatever. I got a long fuse but tired of the same old chorus. Find a new rhyme.
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Just quoting this so that the rest of the board sees the line about all of us being “fucks who lapped it up.”

Pretty bizarre statement coming from someone who claimed to have been “savaged” on this board for his viewpoint. Looks like you’re the only person name-calling and insulting on this, man. Everyone else that I can see is having a totally reasonable debate.
 
CFordUNC said:
You have a very extraordinarily inflated view of yourself if you think I am talking about you. I hate to burst your bubble, but I don’t care about you. I do care that you are posting views with which I personally disagree on a subject on which I feel both personally knowledgeable and personally passionate, and as such I am expressing my disagreement with those opinions specifically and not with you as a person. With all due respect, you should get over yourself. You aren’t that important. Neither am I. This is a message board where we agree sometimes, disagree others. It’s nothing more personal than that.
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I was responding directly to the comment about the media. As I said it was first mention in 3 weeks. So yea, you were talking directly to me.
 
I’ll defend 79 here. Some of the media’s reporting about BB has been legit. A lot of it has been clickbait BS with zero merit to it. Remember the outlets running incessantly with Pablo Torre’s allegation that BB would leave in June and never coach a game at UNC? Remember the stories about how BB had been fired after Clemson? Remember Willingham and the AFAM saga?

There is a documented history of mainstream media outlets printing outright lies about UNC, lies that were very damaging for a while. So yes, the media does deserve some scrutiny when they have never exactly made amends for those issues.
 
heel79 said:
I was responding directly to the comment about the media. As I said it was first mention in 3 weeks. So yea, you were talking directly to me.
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You are completely missing the point, and you are too emotional to continue this conversation, so I’m more than happy to tap out. Hope you have a great evening, great week, great whatever.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I’ll defend 79 here. Some of the media’s reporting about BB has been legit. A lot of it has been clickbait BS with zero merit to it. Remember the outlets running incessantly with Pablo Torre’s allegation that BB would leave in June and never coach a game at UNC? Remember the stories about how BB had been fired after Clemson? Remember Willingham and the AFAM saga?

There is a documented history of mainstream media outlets printing outright lies about UNC, lies that were very damaging for a while. So yes, the media does deserve some scrutiny when they have never exactly made amends for those issues.
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You’re not wrong, and he’s not wrong, about the local media treatment of UNC Football over the last 15 years. But quite literally he is the only one on this thread who has been talking about the media as being what ails UNC Football. The rest of us are talking about flawed talent evaluation, flawed roster management, flawed offensive scheming, etc. That point has been made clear to him over and over. If he could focus on understanding that it is his viewpoint that is being disagreed with, and not his person that is being savaged (his very own word), he might be able to have a more rational discussion on this topic. I don’t think I have said anything, and I don’t think anyone else has said anything, to warrant being called “fucks” or to “fuck off.” It’s UNC Football for Christ sake. It is not that serious.
 
Trying to get us actually back on topic: what number of (offensive only) points would be 'acceptable' to average moving forward? I think we can all agree that this offense is quite poor, and it isn't likely to dramatically improve between now and the end of the season. But, scoring 27 against Syracuse was a step in the right direction. Is it unrealistic to hope to score in the 20s for the rest of the year?
 
fuheel said:
Trying to get us actually back on topic: what number of (offensive only) points would be 'acceptable' to average moving forward? I think we can all agree that this offense is quite poor, and it isn't likely to dramatically improve between now and the end of the season. But, scoring 27 against Syracuse was a step in the right direction. Is it unrealistic to hope to score in the 20s for the rest of the year?
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Great question. I don’t necessarily have a specific number of points that I think we should score the rest of the way, but I do know that moving forward beyond this season, we need a complete overhaul in offensive scheme and philosophy if this thing is even going to have a remote prayer of working out. We cannot try to be an under center, NFL-style ball control offense that is content to try to win games 17-13. We can’t repeatedly punt on 4th and short in plus territory. We can’t have quarterbacks that can’t go through their progressions and lock onto their first read. We have to be able to incorporate the QB into the running game. We need to incorporate much more tempo and much less huddling.

The college game is all offense, all the time now. It’s one of the primary reasons why I was concerned from the get-go about hiring someone who has not only never spent a single second in college football, but who build his entire career and reputation exclusively on defense. Old school defensive coaches like Belichick tend to have a reflexive aversion to up-tempo, spread, air it out, RPO-based offensive schemes, instead preferring slow, methodical, ball control offenses that don’t take risks and don’t turn the ball over. The last one of those that we had here was Butch Davis, and by the time he was relieved, so many of our fans hated the way we played.
 
fuheel said:
Trying to get us actually back on topic: what number of (offensive only) points would be 'acceptable' to average moving forward? I think we can all agree that this offense is quite poor, and it isn't likely to dramatically improve between now and the end of the season. But, scoring 27 against Syracuse was a step in the right direction. Is it unrealistic to hope to score in the 20s for the rest of the year?
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I don’t know what the average should be, but we desperately need more of the offense from second half against Cuse. The defense is a lot better for sure, but it’s still not good enough to expect them to stand on their heads like they did against UVA and win consistently without some help from the offense.

Duke and State in particular have high paced, high scoring offenses. Think we realistically need to be able to break into the 30s if we want to have a strong chance to win either of those games.
 
Peppers49 said:
I don’t know what the average should be, but we desperately need more of the offense from second half against Cuse. The defense is a lot better for sure, but it’s still not good enough to expect them to stand on their heads like they did against UVA and win consistently without some help from the offense.

Duke and State in particular have high paced, high scoring offenses. Think we realistically need to be able to break into the 30s if we want to have a strong chance to win either of those games.
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I agree that the offense needs to help out the defense, but I think (or hope?) they don’t need to score in the 30s to win those games.
 
CFordUNC said:
Great question. I don’t necessarily have a specific number of points that I think we should score the rest of the way, but I do know that moving forward beyond this season, we need a complete overhaul in offensive scheme and philosophy if this thing is even going to have a remote prayer of working out. We cannot try to be an under center, NFL-style ball control offense that is content to try to win games 17-13. We can’t repeatedly punt on 4th and short in plus territory. We can’t have quarterbacks that can’t go through their progressions and lock onto their first read. We have to be able to incorporate the QB into the running game. We need to incorporate much more tempo and much less huddling.

The college game is all offense, all the time now. It’s one of the primary reasons why I was concerned from the get-go about hiring someone who has not only never spent a single second in college football, but who build his entire career and reputation exclusively on defense. Old school defensive coaches like Belichick tend to have a reflexive aversion to up-tempo, spread, air it out, RPO-based offensive schemes, instead preferring slow, methodical, ball control offenses that don’t take risks and don’t turn the ball over. The last one of those that we had here was Butch Davis, and by the time he was relieved, so many of our fans hated the way we played.
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Posted this before but I think you can still be a good college team without having a spread/air-raid scheme if you have a strong o-line, good run blocking schemes, and smart QB play with a suffocating defense to go along with it. Michigan and Georgia in recent seasons would be the formula.

I just don’t think UNC can recruit quite well enough for that though. I’m with you that one of the most alarming things about Belichick is that he didn’t try to get a proven college play caller that could mask some of our personnel deficiencies with a good scheme. Whatever we’re trying to do on that side of the ball isn’t working at all.
 
grubar said:
Earlier in this thread there were some comments about better discussion topics. I really agree with that.
I would say, for instance, that the endless posts and threads about whether BB is doing a good job are a waste of time. Most seem to be predicated on the assumption that the poster believes that he/she simply knows more than BB. That strikes me as silly,

BUT there are tons of discussions one might have about decisions that have been made, when those discussions are framed as analysis of "why" a decision went a particular way, I wish folks would just dispense with these exaggerated notions of how much they know, and how much smarter they are than the OC and the HC and the position coaches. A more interesting question (to me) would ask what variables led the coaching staff to call this play or play this player etc. That is, "why do you think they decided to do this?"

Of course, I think that I am wiser than the POTUS and his entire cabinet, so there is that
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To be fair, there are plenty of high school civics students who are smarter and know more about government than our current POTUS, and no doubt a good many of his Fox News talking head cabinet appointments. As for Belichick, that's an entirely different question - he certainly knows his football, the question and debate is about whether or how well that knowledge is translating itself to the college game. I don't think anyone is questioning his intelligence or general football competence and ability, unlike Trump & Company.
 
Peppers49 said:
I don’t know what the average should be, but we desperately need more of the offense from second half against Cuse. The defense is a lot better for sure, but it’s still not good enough to expect them to stand on their heads like they did against UVA and win consistently without some help from the offense.

Duke and State in particular have high paced, high scoring offenses. Think we realistically need to be able to break into the 30s if we want to have a strong chance to win either of those games.
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We aren’t getting into the 30s unless something radically changes with our QB or we get a bunch of defensive scores.
 
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