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The minute we start saying "dont compare Duke" is the moment we need to disband the basketball program. If we aren't going to compare Duke, then what the hell are we even doing?
Do Red Sox fans ignore the Yankees?
UNC’s Next Basketball Coach
- Thread starter LeoBloom
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- UNC Sports
Do Red Sox fans ignore the Yankees?
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Bigs23
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I don't disagree but I guess the point I'm making or question I'm asking is how many "better" coaches are out there who would take the job? 5, 20, 100?
Bigs23
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Do the Giants ignore the Dodgers? Doesn't mean they are competing on a level playing field.
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No one can ignore Yankees fans, they're too annoying.
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Yeah, I have no clue on that. Especially in this era. And there are some guys who might be good coaches but I wouldn’t be thrilled to have them at UNC.
donbosco
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BartTorvik's site let's you compare programs over multiple seasons.
Here's a comparison of Roy's last 4 seasons to HD's 4.5:
| Overall Rating | Rank | Adj Off Eff | Rank | Adj Def Eff | Rank | WAB | Rank | |
| Roy | .8935 | 16th | 113.7 | 13th | 94.5 | 27th | 13.3 | 14th |
| HD | .8947 | 21st | 116.1 | 17th | 96.3 | 31st | 13.2 | 19th |
Roy's last 4 years, by ranking, are better overall, on offense, on defense, and by WAB than HD's 4.5 seasons.
That's even after doing HD a favor and intentionally leaving out Roy's previous season (which would be closer to equal), which was an unmitigated success.
And, of course, these are the 4 seasons that led Roy to retire because he didn't think he had it any longer.
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That's why I look at stats that compare each how coach performed against his competition.
Every coach that HD's teams played against were also dealing with COVID, the portal, and NIL. And he did worse versus his peers than Roy did against his.
And, of course, one can take the view that UNC should have benefited from the portal and NIL, as no worse than a top 5 program, since we have a lot of money and we should be one of the most attractive programs to play for.
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I agree...
Lack of player development is difficult when you lose( or run off ) players after one or two years.
For the most part spending time and money recruiting and landing 5 star OAD players over the past 8 years has yielded a poor return on investment.
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He had to deal with Covid. In fact, the 2021 season was the one most impacted by Covid. And as we saw, teams with young rosters that relied heavily on freshmen that season tended to struggle, likely due to lost opportunities to play together and/or practice during the summer and preseason. UNC relied heavily on freshmen that year with a roster consisting of 6 freshmen on scholarship (4 of whom were in the top 7 in mpg). Teams like Duke and UK uncharacteristically struggled considerably with their young rosters that season, failing to make the NCAAT.
ETA: Regarding the 2020 team, that team probably wasn’t going to be a particularly good team even if everyone stayed healthy throughout the season. Their ceiling was probably ending the season as a bubble team. But Roy had to deal with losing his best player on that team for 1/3 of the season (and playing hurt for most of the 2/3 of the season he did play) and losing his third best player for more than 1/4 of the season, on top of having other players miss games here and there with injuries. That’s going to cause problems for any coach. Again, that probably wasn’t going to be a good season regardless, but those injuries made it a lot worse that it otherwise would have been.
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Bigs23
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Not much of a difference.
stankeylegjones
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Then HD should retire.
donbosco
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Thanks for the correction.
What we can clearly agree on is the fact that Coach Davis took he reins and rode into unexplored territory, granted along with every other coach, but as a rookie, and one ensconced in tradition...a tradition I'd be loathe to abandon. In fact, an abandonment of "The Carolina Way" would for me, lay low a huge quantity of my partisanship. I'll never leave behind my love for my alma mater, don't get me wrong, but for us to become Indiana or dook or the like, would make it hard for me to care overmuch.
Perhaps that would be a good thing.
I've got a good buddy with whom I share a great love of The Baltimore Orioles dating back to our Little League years. We also share our alma mater. He's left off college sports with the advent of the portal and the NIL though because much of what he loved about the nature of the game is gone. But he hasn't done that with the Orioles. Numerous times I've pointed out to him that MLB has been the change in college basketball that he abhors for decades...to some degree forever...but he says that's the point...it has always been that way and it is the change in CBB that has caused him to lose interest.
akillesheel
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pro sports have multi-year contracts. even if your team is going to get outspent for an FA by a wealthier owner, you are pretty likely to have had them for the duration of a rookie contract and sometimes a second in the case of a late breakout. it's a far cry from the current state of college sports where it barely raises an eyebrow when a player has played for 4 schools in 4 years.
you could further argue that you get to see a lot of your favorites in pro sports (less so in baseball, I suppose) for a lot longer than 4 years, the theoretical max in college even pre-portal/NIL. So no, I don't think that the MLB represents the changes that have been made to college sports. They may have professionalized, but they haven't really come closer to being professional leagues. (This is also why the argument that Belichick was ready for the environment of college football because of his experience in the pros was always bunk)
donbosco
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Good points...still, the Carolina players I have known and loved over the past 5 decades were almost completely and strictly Tar Heels...a few transfers away and a few transfers in. My own feelings about baseball players is that they can be here today and gone tomorrow and this has always been the case. Until recently that was almost never the case at Carolina, or for that matter, in the CBB world.
No doubt though that college basketball at present is uber unstable, with, as you say, players going to 4 schools during their career (I point that out in the biorhythm write-ups now since it is so prevalent). It is, as you suggest, worse than pro sports. My buddy certainly has a point in leaving behind the college game.
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Dean Smith went 66-47 ( 58% ) in his first 5 seasons at UNC
No wonder fans wanted to hang him in effigy...
No wonder fans wanted to hang him in effigy...
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This discussion is also interesting considering what has happened with successful NFL coaches over the past week or so.
Buffalo just fired Sean McDermott. Buffalo had failed to make the playoffs 17 straight years prior to McDermott taking over. After he took over, they made the playoffs 8 out the 9 years he was there, including 2 conference championship games, one of which was last season. Was it time for a change or did he get screwed?
Baltimore recently fired John Harbraugh. In 18 years with the Ravens, he reached the playoffs 12 times and won a Super Bowl (12 years ago). Baltimore played in the conference championship as recently as 2 years ago. He went 25-9 in the previous 2 seasons before this last one. He had only 3 seasons where he finished under .500 and two of those were 8-9.
Mike Tomlin just stepped down from the Steelers likely due to being pressured to leave. In 19 years with the Steelers, he made the playoffs 13 times. He led the Steelers to 2 Super Bowls, winning 1. He never finished under .500.
Not trying to hijack with an NFL coaching discussion, but it makes one think about factors to consider when determining whether it’s worth making a coaching change.
Buffalo just fired Sean McDermott. Buffalo had failed to make the playoffs 17 straight years prior to McDermott taking over. After he took over, they made the playoffs 8 out the 9 years he was there, including 2 conference championship games, one of which was last season. Was it time for a change or did he get screwed?
Baltimore recently fired John Harbraugh. In 18 years with the Ravens, he reached the playoffs 12 times and won a Super Bowl (12 years ago). Baltimore played in the conference championship as recently as 2 years ago. He went 25-9 in the previous 2 seasons before this last one. He had only 3 seasons where he finished under .500 and two of those were 8-9.
Mike Tomlin just stepped down from the Steelers likely due to being pressured to leave. In 19 years with the Steelers, he made the playoffs 13 times. He led the Steelers to 2 Super Bowls, winning 1. He never finished under .500.
Not trying to hijack with an NFL coaching discussion, but it makes one think about factors to consider when determining whether it’s worth making a coaching change.