—> US Sends More Immigrants to Salvadoran Prison | SCOTUS vs POTUS

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A Loophole That Would Swallow the Constitution​

If Donald Trump can disappear people to El Salvador without due process, he can do anything.

🎁 🔗 —> A Loophole That Would Swallow the Constitution

“… Trump’s ploy is almost insultingly simple. He has seized the power to arrest any person and whisk them to Bukele’s notorious Terrorism Confinement Center, where they will be held indefinitely without trial.

Once they are in Bukele’s custody, Trump can deny them the protections of American law. His administration has admitted that one such prisoner, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, was sent to El Salvador in error, but insists that it has no recourse. Trump, who has threatened the territorial integrity of multiple hemispheric neighbors, now claims that requesting the return of a prisoner he paid El Salvador to take would violate that country’s sovereignty.

Neither Trump nor Bukele bothered to make this absurd conceit appear plausible.

Even as Trump and his officials claim that only El Salvador has the power to free wrongfully imprisoned American residents, the United States is paying El Salvador to hold the prisoners. (Naturally, Congress never appropriated such funds; Trump has already seized large swaths of Congress’s constitutionally mandated spending power for himself.) Bukele told reporters, “I don’t have the power to return him to the United States.”

Trump, not even attempting to maintain the pretense that the two countries were somehow at an impasse, told his counterpart, “You are helping us out, and we appreciate it.”

… And so Trump has opened up a trapdoor beneath the American legal system. This trapdoor is wide enough to swallow the entire Constitution. So long as he can find at least one foreign strongman to cooperate, Trump can, if he wishes, imprison any dissident, judge, journalist, member of Congress, or candidate for office.

… Still, in contrast to the shambolic, halting rollout of Trump’s tariffs, the transformation of the world’s oldest democracy into a competitive authoritarian system—rivaling that of Bukele’s regime in El Salvador, Viktor Orbán’s in Hungary, and Vladimir Putin’s in Russia—has the earmarks of careful planning. Every element of Trump’s assault on democracy was broadcast well in advance.

… Trump’s determination to use immigration power as a limitless weapon to intimidate and imprison his enemies is not just a manifestation of his character. It is the most frightening element of his administration’s plan to crush liberal democracy itself. …”
 
nycfan said:

A Loophole That Would Swallow the Constitution​

If Donald Trump can disappear people to El Salvador without due process, he can do anything.

🎁 🔗 —> A Loophole That Would Swallow the Constitution

“… Trump’s ploy is almost insultingly simple. He has seized the power to arrest any person and whisk them to Bukele’s notorious Terrorism Confinement Center, where they will be held indefinitely without trial.

Once they are in Bukele’s custody, Trump can deny them the protections of American law. His administration has admitted that one such prisoner, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, was sent to El Salvador in error, but insists that it has no recourse. Trump, who has threatened the territorial integrity of multiple hemispheric neighbors, now claims that requesting the return of a prisoner he paid El Salvador to take would violate that country’s sovereignty.

Neither Trump nor Bukele bothered to make this absurd conceit appear plausible.

Even as Trump and his officials claim that only El Salvador has the power to free wrongfully imprisoned American residents, the United States is paying El Salvador to hold the prisoners. (Naturally, Congress never appropriated such funds; Trump has already seized large swaths of Congress’s constitutionally mandated spending power for himself.) Bukele told reporters, “I don’t have the power to return him to the United States.”

Trump, not even attempting to maintain the pretense that the two countries were somehow at an impasse, told his counterpart, “You are helping us out, and we appreciate it.”

… And so Trump has opened up a trapdoor beneath the American legal system. This trapdoor is wide enough to swallow the entire Constitution. So long as he can find at least one foreign strongman to cooperate, Trump can, if he wishes, imprison any dissident, judge, journalist, member of Congress, or candidate for office.

… Still, in contrast to the shambolic, halting rollout of Trump’s tariffs, the transformation of the world’s oldest democracy into a competitive authoritarian system—rivaling that of Bukele’s regime in El Salvador, Viktor Orbán’s in Hungary, and Vladimir Putin’s in Russia—has the earmarks of careful planning. Every element of Trump’s assault on democracy was broadcast well in advance.

… Trump’s determination to use immigration power as a limitless weapon to intimidate and imprison his enemies is not just a manifestation of his character. It is the most frightening element of his administration’s plan to crush liberal democracy itself. …”
Click to expand...
“… Trump has taken care to exclude any appointees who might hesitate on moral, legal, or practical grounds to implement his proposals. His most effective technique has been to use January 6 as a screening device, filtering out any potential staff who condemn the insurrection or refuse to repeat his claim to have won the presidential election in 2020. Trump’s failed attempt to overturn that election posed a mortal threat to his career at the time, but what didn’t kill him made him stronger. The insurrection became the perfect tool to purge his party’s remaining pro-democracy faction.

… The combination of these changes has completely altered the character of advice Trump receives and the range of beliefs considered acceptable within his administration. With regard to democratic norms, the ideas circulating around Trump range from indifference to overt contempt. Where the first Trump administration contained a mix of authoritarian Trump loyalists and traditional Republicans, this one consists of authoritarian Trumpists egging one another on.

… Trump’s showdown with the Supreme Court over the Abrego Garcia case has surfaced two ideas in particular that have been gestating for years on the right.

One is the use of deportation authority not only to enforce immigration law but to intimidate Trump’s political critics.

Another is to defy court orders.

… Vance has been publicly floating the idea of ignoring court orders for years. “If I was giving him one piece of advice, fire every single mid-level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state,” Vance said of Trump in 2021. “Replace them with our people. And when the courts—because you will get taken to court—and when the courts stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did and say, ‘The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.’” He has repeated versions of this idea in subsequent interviews.

Why has the administration risked the brinkmanship of defying a unanimous Supreme Court ruling in order to sustain its policy of disappearing people without due process, when it has so many other available tools to handle border enforcement? Possibly it is just extremely stubborn. But there is also considerable evidence that the administration wants to preserve this constitutional loophole in order to use it more broadly to intimidate opponents.

… Trump stated that he wants to expand deportations to El Salvador to American citizens.

… The president depicted this method as a response to hardened criminals. (This is scarcely a defense—even the worst offenders are entitled to the protections of the Constitution.) But it’s important to understand that Trump habitually equates opposition, or any deviation from his goals, with illegality. He has labeled as criminals all three of his electoral opponents, a wide swath of media organizations, and many other people who made the mistake of publicly criticizing or disagreeing with him.

Just days before his meeting with Bukele, he ordered the Justice Department to investigate the former cybersecurity official Chris Krebs for having “falsely and baselessly denied that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen.”

Trump’s allies in the administration have adopted this habit. Elon Musk has called the United States Agency for International Development, a decades-old program with support in both parties, a “criminal organization.” Republican politicians and media routinely depict protests against Tesla as part of a conspiracy to commit domestic terrorism, conflating a tiny handful of acts of vandalism with mass-scale peaceful protests.

… Mike Davis, a conservative lawyer who has worked with the administration, told Axios last month. In 2023, Davis posted threats to denaturalize and deport the anti-Trump opinion journalists Mehdi Hasan and Tim Miller: “@mehdirhasan is now on my Lists 2 (indict), 4 (detain), 6 (denaturalize), and 3 (deport). I already have his spot picked out in the DC gulag. But I’ll put him in the women’s cell block, with@Timodc. So these whiny leftists don’t get beat up as often.”

These threats probably contain an element of performative trolling. But one pattern of Trumpism is that its most outrageous notions appear first as jokes, allowing them to be processed and denuded of shock value, before eventually being assimilated into Trump’s actual policy platform.

… After Maryland’s Senator Chris Van Hollen traveled to El Salvador to inquire about the status of Abrego Garcia, the “Trump War Room,” the official account of the president’s political operation, posted a photo mock-up depicting Van Hollen covered in gang tattoos, as if to suggest that he, too, belongs in Bukele’s dungeon. In the sea of ideas in which Trump and his advisers swim, deporting the libs is an established trope. …”



“… The Occam’s-razor explanation is that these people genuinely want to deport their political opponents without due process. The administration has certainly claimed the power that would enable it to do so.

“They have the temerity to say that every single invader should get their own individual judicial trial before they are deported,” Miller ranted on Fox News earlier this month.

“One at a time, each one gets a $1 million trial in front of a communist judge to decide whether or not we can send them home.”

Without due process, of course, an “invader” is simply anybody Trump labels as such. …”
 
nycfan said:
“… Trump has taken care to exclude any appointees who might hesitate on moral, legal, or practical grounds to implement his proposals. His most effective technique has been to use January 6 as a screening device, filtering out any potential staff who condemn the insurrection or refuse to repeat his claim to have won the presidential election in 2020. Trump’s failed attempt to overturn that election posed a mortal threat to his career at the time, but what didn’t kill him made him stronger. The insurrection became the perfect tool to purge his party’s remaining pro-democracy faction.

… The combination of these changes has completely altered the character of advice Trump receives and the range of beliefs considered acceptable within his administration. With regard to democratic norms, the ideas circulating around Trump range from indifference to overt contempt. Where the first Trump administration contained a mix of authoritarian Trump loyalists and traditional Republicans, this one consists of authoritarian Trumpists egging one another on.

… Trump’s showdown with the Supreme Court over the Abrego Garcia case has surfaced two ideas in particular that have been gestating for years on the right.

One is the use of deportation authority not only to enforce immigration law but to intimidate Trump’s political critics.

Another is to defy court orders.

… Vance has been publicly floating the idea of ignoring court orders for years. “If I was giving him one piece of advice, fire every single mid-level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state,” Vance said of Trump in 2021. “Replace them with our people. And when the courts—because you will get taken to court—and when the courts stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did and say, ‘The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.’” He has repeated versions of this idea in subsequent interviews.

Why has the administration risked the brinkmanship of defying a unanimous Supreme Court ruling in order to sustain its policy of disappearing people without due process, when it has so many other available tools to handle border enforcement? Possibly it is just extremely stubborn. But there is also considerable evidence that the administration wants to preserve this constitutional loophole in order to use it more broadly to intimidate opponents.

… Trump stated that he wants to expand deportations to El Salvador to American citizens.

… The president depicted this method as a response to hardened criminals. (This is scarcely a defense—even the worst offenders are entitled to the protections of the Constitution.) But it’s important to understand that Trump habitually equates opposition, or any deviation from his goals, with illegality. He has labeled as criminals all three of his electoral opponents, a wide swath of media organizations, and many other people who made the mistake of publicly criticizing or disagreeing with him.

Just days before his meeting with Bukele, he ordered the Justice Department to investigate the former cybersecurity official Chris Krebs for having “falsely and baselessly denied that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen.”

Trump’s allies in the administration have adopted this habit. Elon Musk has called the United States Agency for International Development, a decades-old program with support in both parties, a “criminal organization.” Republican politicians and media routinely depict protests against Tesla as part of a conspiracy to commit domestic terrorism, conflating a tiny handful of acts of vandalism with mass-scale peaceful protests.

… Mike Davis, a conservative lawyer who has worked with the administration, told Axios last month. In 2023, Davis posted threats to denaturalize and deport the anti-Trump opinion journalists Mehdi Hasan and Tim Miller: “@mehdirhasan is now on my Lists 2 (indict), 4 (detain), 6 (denaturalize), and 3 (deport). I already have his spot picked out in the DC gulag. But I’ll put him in the women’s cell block, with@Timodc. So these whiny leftists don’t get beat up as often.”

These threats probably contain an element of performative trolling. But one pattern of Trumpism is that its most outrageous notions appear first as jokes, allowing them to be processed and denuded of shock value, before eventually being assimilated into Trump’s actual policy platform.

… After Maryland’s Senator Chris Van Hollen traveled to El Salvador to inquire about the status of Abrego Garcia, the “Trump War Room,” the official account of the president’s political operation, posted a photo mock-up depicting Van Hollen covered in gang tattoos, as if to suggest that he, too, belongs in Bukele’s dungeon. In the sea of ideas in which Trump and his advisers swim, deporting the libs is an established trope. …”



“… The Occam’s-razor explanation is that these people genuinely want to deport their political opponents without due process. The administration has certainly claimed the power that would enable it to do so.

“They have the temerity to say that every single invader should get their own individual judicial trial before they are deported,” Miller ranted on Fox News earlier this month.

“One at a time, each one gets a $1 million trial in front of a communist judge to decide whether or not we can send them home.”

Without due process, of course, an “invader” is simply anybody Trump labels as such. …”
Click to expand...

“…“Ideas have consequences,” the conservative philosopher Richard Weaver wrote in 1948.

The post-liberal right’s ideas about revenge and power are currently the most influential ideas in the world. Their implications need to be taken with deadly seriousness.”
 
StrangePackage said:
Fair point. Let me rephrase-

Why would anyone with even half a functioning brain trust anyone in the Trump Administration or the Republican Party at this point?

As to the facts of the case, read this, and provide me with the orders which you say overturned the one that stayed his removal.

Abrego Garcia and MS-13: What Do We Know?

The allegation seems to stem from double hearsay in a document authored by a later suspended police detective.
www.lawfaremedia.org www.lawfaremedia.org
Click to expand...
I listen the the Lawfare podcast pretty regularly and Roger Parloff is the most liberal/Trump disliking/opposing of the three regular hosts. So, I suspect there is a significant bias in his article.

Everyone agrees that he shouldn't have been sent to El Salvador, but he also is not eligible for asylum, so he didn't belong here. His MS-13 ties, from what I've read, are up in the air, but he apparently also assaulted his wife.

In the end, the Trump admin messed up, but he's still a citizen of El Salvador and the government of El Salvador is under no obligation to send him back to us.

 
ZenMode said:
I listen the the Lawfare podcast pretty regularly and Roger Parloff is the most liberal/Trump disliking/opposing of the three regular hosts. So, I suspect there is a significant bias in his article.

Everyone agrees that he shouldn't have been sent to El Salvador, but he also is not eligible for asylum, so he didn't belong here. His MS-13 ties, from what I've read, are up in the air, but he apparently also assaulted his wife.

In the end, the Trump admin messed up, but he's still a citizen of El Salvador and the government of El Salvador is under no obligation to send him back to us.

Click to expand...
Your steadfast commitment to missing the point is an inspiration to morons, assholes, and trolls everywhere.
 
nycfan said:
“… Trump has taken care to exclude any appointees who might hesitate on moral, legal, or practical grounds to implement his proposals. His most effective technique has been to use January 6 as a screening device, filtering out any potential staff who condemn the insurrection or refuse to repeat his claim to have won the presidential election in 2020. Trump’s failed attempt to overturn that election posed a mortal threat to his career at the time, but what didn’t kill him made him stronger. The insurrection became the perfect tool to purge his party’s remaining pro-democracy faction.

… The combination of these changes has completely altered the character of advice Trump receives and the range of beliefs considered acceptable within his administration. With regard to democratic norms, the ideas circulating around Trump range from indifference to overt contempt. Where the first Trump administration contained a mix of authoritarian Trump loyalists and traditional Republicans, this one consists of authoritarian Trumpists egging one another on.

… Trump’s showdown with the Supreme Court over the Abrego Garcia case has surfaced two ideas in particular that have been gestating for years on the right.

One is the use of deportation authority not only to enforce immigration law but to intimidate Trump’s political critics.

Another is to defy court orders.

… Vance has been publicly floating the idea of ignoring court orders for years. “If I was giving him one piece of advice, fire every single mid-level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state,” Vance said of Trump in 2021. “Replace them with our people. And when the courts—because you will get taken to court—and when the courts stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did and say, ‘The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.’” He has repeated versions of this idea in subsequent interviews.

Why has the administration risked the brinkmanship of defying a unanimous Supreme Court ruling in order to sustain its policy of disappearing people without due process, when it has so many other available tools to handle border enforcement? Possibly it is just extremely stubborn. But there is also considerable evidence that the administration wants to preserve this constitutional loophole in order to use it more broadly to intimidate opponents.

… Trump stated that he wants to expand deportations to El Salvador to American citizens.

… The president depicted this method as a response to hardened criminals. (This is scarcely a defense—even the worst offenders are entitled to the protections of the Constitution.) But it’s important to understand that Trump habitually equates opposition, or any deviation from his goals, with illegality. He has labeled as criminals all three of his electoral opponents, a wide swath of media organizations, and many other people who made the mistake of publicly criticizing or disagreeing with him.

Just days before his meeting with Bukele, he ordered the Justice Department to investigate the former cybersecurity official Chris Krebs for having “falsely and baselessly denied that the 2020 election was rigged and stolen.”

Trump’s allies in the administration have adopted this habit. Elon Musk has called the United States Agency for International Development, a decades-old program with support in both parties, a “criminal organization.” Republican politicians and media routinely depict protests against Tesla as part of a conspiracy to commit domestic terrorism, conflating a tiny handful of acts of vandalism with mass-scale peaceful protests.

… Mike Davis, a conservative lawyer who has worked with the administration, told Axios last month. In 2023, Davis posted threats to denaturalize and deport the anti-Trump opinion journalists Mehdi Hasan and Tim Miller: “@mehdirhasan is now on my Lists 2 (indict), 4 (detain), 6 (denaturalize), and 3 (deport). I already have his spot picked out in the DC gulag. But I’ll put him in the women’s cell block, with@Timodc. So these whiny leftists don’t get beat up as often.”

These threats probably contain an element of performative trolling. But one pattern of Trumpism is that its most outrageous notions appear first as jokes, allowing them to be processed and denuded of shock value, before eventually being assimilated into Trump’s actual policy platform.

… After Maryland’s Senator Chris Van Hollen traveled to El Salvador to inquire about the status of Abrego Garcia, the “Trump War Room,” the official account of the president’s political operation, posted a photo mock-up depicting Van Hollen covered in gang tattoos, as if to suggest that he, too, belongs in Bukele’s dungeon. In the sea of ideas in which Trump and his advisers swim, deporting the libs is an established trope. …”



“… The Occam’s-razor explanation is that these people genuinely want to deport their political opponents without due process. The administration has certainly claimed the power that would enable it to do so.

“They have the temerity to say that every single invader should get their own individual judicial trial before they are deported,” Miller ranted on Fox News earlier this month.

“One at a time, each one gets a $1 million trial in front of a communist judge to decide whether or not we can send them home.”

Without due process, of course, an “invader” is simply anybody Trump labels as such. …”
Click to expand...

This man is so amazingly childish and petty.

I can recall who argued that he is a good leader. I wonder if their opinion has changed.
 
ZenMode said:
I was referring to what Rubio and bondi said.

I don't know If two courts said that Garcia was involved with MS-13, but I do believe that two quarts turned down his asylum claim and that he was scheduled to be deported, which means that the only real mistake was deporting him back to his home country.
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Again, the question is why would you trust Trump? Rubio and Bondi are mouthpieces for him. They say what he tells him to say.
 
ZenMode said:
In the end, the Trump admin messed up, but he's still a citizen of El Salvador and the government of El Salvador is under no obligation to send him back to us.

Click to expand...
You're trying to talk law again, after the shellacking you received yesterday?

The man remains in US custody. El Salvador is just the jailer. El Salvador is under no "obligation" in that there was very likely no formal contract signed, but at no point did the US say, "here, he's all yours" nor could the government have said that. And the fact that we've brought back other detainees from there completely undermines Trump's position.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Again, the question is why would you trust Trump? Rubio and Bondi are mouthpieces for him. They say what he tells him to say.
Click to expand...
Because it aligns with other things I've read from reliable sources like The Hill. Hence the link that I posted from The Hill.
 
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