US STRIKES VENEZUELA / CAPTURES MADURO

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a few points made my elliot abrams at national review a few days ago i hope he is right

President Trump is pressing, harder than we did in his first term (when I served as special representative for Venezuela), for change. This is very much in the interests of the United States. The greatest refugee flow in the history of this hemisphere, the 8 million Venezuelans who have fled, will not stop as long as Maduro is in power. The drug flows out of Venezuela will not stop as long as his regime remains, because it relies on income from drug (and also gold and human) trafficking to survive. And the cooperation between that regime and hostile powers — Cuba, Russia, China, Iran — and terrorist groups like Hezbollah will not stop because they help the regime survive and share its hostility to the United States.

I read and hear the objections: After Maduro may come chaos, as in Libya or Iraq, or divisions such as we see in Syria, and there’s no reason to think what comes next will be any better.

These arguments show a lack of familiarity with Venezuelan history, today’s Venezuela, and Latin American politics and society. The divisions that we see in many Middle Eastern countries — historical and geographical, such as in Libya, or social and religious, as in Iraq or Syria, do not exist in Venezuela’s quite homogeneous society. Venezuela is surrounded by democracies and is one of the rare non-democratic countries in this hemisphere. Venezuela, unlike most Middle Eastern countries, has a history of democracy starting with its overthrow of a military dictator in 1958 and lasting until Hugo Chavez began to destroy it 40 years later. Democratic institutions do not need to be invented, but rather restored and reinvigorated.

Nor is there a case in Latin America where a transition to democracy was followed by the kind of social and political collapse into anarchy that some analysts seem to fear. In Venezuela, a new government will of course have to deal with the military — but that was true of every Latin American transition, and in no case has there been a successful military coup reversing the transition. As to the “colectivos,” irregular paramilitary groups that the regime has organized to intimidate the opposition, they too will have to be dealt with — but their power comes from their ties to the regime. Once its ideological, political, financial, and military support ends, the strength of the colectivos will wane steadily.

Nor are arguments that the Venezuelan opposition is hopelessly divided and incompetent true. The opposition united behind Machado despite ideological differences and past rivalries.
So we’re supposed to take this seriously because Elliott Abrams says so? The same Elliott Abrams who lied to Congress during Iran-Contra, was convicted, and then pardoned? The same guy who spent the 1980s running interference for U.S.-backed death squads in Central America and dismissed reports of El Mozote, the massacre of hundreds of civilians, as leftist propaganda until it became impossible to deny? That’s who we’re laundering credibility through to assure us that regime change will be clean, orderly, and democratic this time? Give me a fucking break.

Abrams has been wrong and morally bankrupt for forty years, but we’re told that now he understands Venezuelan society better than everyone warning about chaos and that kidnapping a foreign leader and dismantling a state by force is just “restoring democracy.”

If this argument sounds familiar, it’s because it’s the same one used in Central America, Iraq, and everywhere else this crowd shows up. This is about U.S. power over the internal politics of South and Central America. It’s damn sure not about democracy.
 
The most interesting thing, to me, about this is that it just shows again that on the rare occasion that Trump does something that is theoretically defensible - in this case, removing Maduro from power - he does so in such a fucked up way that he inevitably makes the situation far worse than if he'd done nothing at all.

He's such a dumbass he even fucks up the few ideas he has that aren't completely stupid from the beginning.

It really is like he has an inverse Midas touch.
 
Why cant y’all simply celebrate this “win” for the USA? This hurts China and may be the final nail in the coffin for the dictatorships in Iran and Cuba?

Plus, the Venezuelans sure seem happy today.
It’s in violation of the Constitution and in violation of international law. If we don’t have the Rule of Law (which, as a lawyer, you’re sworn to uphold) we only have oppression and rule of the strong. Do US civil rights matter? Does Taiwan matter? Does Ukraine matter?
 
Military coup in 3...2...1...

I'm sure it ends well. Just like Chile.
That's what I've been reading in some places - that Trump 2.0 is counting on the military to just take over and then allow the US to get all the oil they want from Venezuela. I seriously doubt they've thought about the long-term consequences of all this, whatever happens.
 
That's what I've been reading in some places - that Trump 2.0 is counting on the military to just take over and then allow the US to get all the oil they want from Venezuela. I seriously doubt they've thought about the long-term consequences of all this, whatever happens.
I recently read that there are something like a dozen or more paramilitary factions in Venezuela. Hard to imagine those factions are not represented in the military and have intent on making this all very messy. I suspect the Nobel winner from this past year is about to get her peacefulness severely tested. The history of right wingers in South America certainly suggests she will test the credibility of that award.
 
I recently read that there are something like a dozen or more paramilitary factions in Venezuela. Hard to imagine those factions are not represented in the military and have intent on making this all very messy. I suspect the Nobel winner from this past year is about to get her peacefulness severely tested. The history of right wingers in South America certainly suggests she will test the credibility of that award.
One of Sting's sons will get to write a song about it in 20 years.

 
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