US strikes Venezuela / Captures Maduro

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StrangePackage said:
Our justification that we can do whatever we like in our back yard (really, in our neighborhood, in the homes and yards of our neighbors) is exactly what Putin wants to do in his back yard.

We're reordering the global security environment to gift him this opportunity.

To use your parlance from bridge, Maduro is a save bid for Putin. It may be a little painful short term but it's setting up a much bigger win down the road.
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Agreed. That is also how I read the situation. Russia wants inroads in Europe and parts of Africa, and is willing to forgo influence in the Americas. China wants East Asia, Trump wants the Americas. Three empires. Australia, and parts of Africa, probably get left alone for now. Whatever destroys the traditional powers of Europe and the rest of Asia is in their best interest.
 
Callatoroy said:
I do believe that. I also see how you came to your opinion. However, the likelihood of that happening is mitigated by the economic and military realities of today. I do believe what you are claiming would be more of a possibility if we had invaded / occupied Ven. But the reality is that we snatched an indicted criminal. As I said before, I'm much more worried about what's to come vs what has transpired so far.
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Me too. Which is, paradoxically, why I find the "so far" concerning. You can't really talk about what might happen without also acknowledging what has already played out.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Spin, baby, spin.

1. We kidnapped and arrested the leader of a foreign country.
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No we didn't.
WaynetheDrain said:
2. We announced to the world, “We run this country now.”
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For the time being, that's true. As Trump said, we will run it until a "safe, proper and judicious transition" can be ensured.
WaynetheDrain said:
3. We make clear our plan to take their natural resources for our own.
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Or he made it clear that he want to un-nationalized what Hugo Chavez nationalized since multiple US oil companies had rights to develop that oil before that happened.
WaynetheDrain said:
That’s called an act of war.
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StrangePackage said:
Our justification that we can do whatever we like in our back yard (really, in our neighborhood, in the homes and yards of our neighbors) is exactly what Putin wants to do in his back yard.

We're reordering the global security environment to gift him this opportunity.

To use your parlance from bridge, Maduro is a save bid for Putin. It may be a little painful short term but it's setting up a much bigger win down the road.
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I don't agree that we think we can do whatever we want in our neighborhood. Miller's comments (and many of trump's) were idiotic, very harmful, and you can tell he was bullied as a kid, but our system prevents it. Russia is limited by its system, economic situation, and weakened military. The more the price of oil is depressed, the weaker russia becomes.
 
The problem with predicting a domino theory/slippery slope is that you don't know for sure if it is a fallacy or not until the cost gets extremely high.

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Zenmode has the exact kind of slack-jawed dumbfuckery that makes someone like Trump so attractive to him. Trump gives him a bukkake of bullshit and he continually wipes his mouth and asks for more.
 
1moretimeagain said:
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Which could just mean that ConocoPhillips and ExxonMobile, both of which had right to develop until Chavez took over, will be guaranteed their rights back. That's us "keeping the oil".

Let's say Trump literally meant that we are keeping the oil. I don't exactly know what that means, but the next president can undo that wrong on day 1.
 
Callatoroy said:
I don't agree that we think we can do whatever we want in our neighborhood. Miller's comments (and many of trump's) were idiotic, very harmful, and you can tell he was bullied as a kid, but our system prevents it. Russia is limited by its system, economic situation, and weakened military. The more the price of oil is depressed, the weaker russia becomes.
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"Our system" prevents nothing. Those guardrails have been systematically dismantled over the past 15 years.

The stated position of the Trump administration is that we exercise total control in our sphere of influence and nobody can stop it. We will alienate allies and cut corrupt deals with autocrats to get whatever we want.

Pretending we won't do exactly what he's saying is definitely a take. And pretending that Putin and Xi won't do exactly the same thing in their back yards is even more wish casting.

Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?
 
Callatoroy said:
If obama or biden had done the same thing I don't think there would be much disapproval.
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Neither Obama nor Biden would have done such a thing, and that's parrt of the reason why we liked them.

There is no exit strategy. Have Rubio or Miller "run" the country? Really? "Take their oil"? There is a lot of sh!t getting piled up to throw into a lot of fans right now. It boggles my mind that some people seem to think that it's over, as opposed to just beginning.

I really, really hope I'm wrong, but I just get the strong feeling that we've seen this movie before.
 

"Professor breaks down what happened in Venezuela" (Video)​

"UNC Charlotte Associate Dean Greg Weeks on the U.S. capture of Venezuelan Pres. Nicolas Maduro, Maduro's presidency and the United States' history of intervention."

Great Scholar, Good Man. One of UNCC's Gems.


 
Callatoroy said:
You are applying a philosophical, very broad, principle to a situation that is driven by nuance.

We completely agree on your comment about world order. However, there exceptions when that world order threatens our national security and aids russia in continuing its war with ukraine.
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You did not address his question. I think it was a fair question to address your concerns about Venezuela's relations with Russia and China.

Would you be ok if China took Taiwan, and attacked Japan and South Korea because they constituted a threat to their national security?
 
lawtig02 said:
Does "how things stand today" include the fact that virtually every foreign policy Trump has made in his five years as president has benefited Putin?
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I see trump's relationship with putin completely different than the board so I'm not sure we can go down that road without wasting a lot of time only for you and me to still disagree. Not intended in any way to dismiss your comment, just a rabbit hole that won't advance the conversation. Also not intended to imply your point is illogical. I admit that I can see a path that would benefit putin. I don't see the US on that path currently.
 
heelinhell said:
You did not address his question. I think it was a fair question to address your concerns about Venezuela's relations with Russia and China.

Would you be ok if China took Taiwan, and attacked Japan and South Korea because they constituted a threat to their national security?
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Sorry, I thought my answer was implied in the part about nuance. Meaning this situation and the hypothetical situation were different and had much different variables.

No, I would not be OK. Japan, SK, and Taiwan pose no threat to china's national security. They are not bad actors, They are not propagating drugs / crime within china's borders. There is no modern history of aggression from them to china. They are all democracies with enough history to achieve stability. I don't think you can compare the two situations as a justification to oppose removing madura. Apples / oranges
 
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