War on Universities, Lawyers & Expertise

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nycfan said:


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This poor girl - she has suffered so much for flunking a poorly-written and argued research paper. How dare that evil Communist Liberal Marxist Godless professor give her a failing grade! That professor's entire academic career must be totally destroyed in vengeance for flunking this Angel of God and Victim of Evil Godless Radical DEI Liberalism!

These people are a combination of deeply insecure batshit crazy loons who want to destroy the lives of anyone who criticizes them in any way, and soulless grifters out to gin up fake outrage and profit from the gullibility of their base. And in her case (and her mom's) I suspect it's some of both.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
This

This poor girl - she has suffered so much for flunking a poorly-written and argued research paper. How dare that evil Communist Liberal Marxist Godless professor give her a failing grade! That professor's entire academic career must be totally destroyed in vengeance for flunking this Angel of God and Victim of Evil Godless Radical DEI Liberalism!

These people are a combination of deeply insecure batshit crazy loons who want to destroy the lives of anyone who criticizes them in any way, and soulless grifters out to gin up fake outrage and profit from the gullibility of their base. And in her case (and her mom's) I suspect it's some of both.
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Yeah I wonder whose decision it was to make this a national story in the first place?
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
Serious question. What would you do if it were up to you?

1. Suspend the TA with pay and let the courts rectify this.

2. Fight it and risk losing all federal funding.

Because we have seen Trump suspend federal funding for stupid reasons.
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It’s Oklahoma. If there’s one state university in America that Trump would be least likely to withhold funding from, it’d be OU.

That said, given that the TA themself is trans, the likelihood of OU actively supporting/standing up for said TA enough to actually take this to court is negligible.

In fact, given the university has gone all-in on MAGA anti-DEI policies, I wouldn’t be surprised if the TA is, uh, “encouraged” by the OU admin to transfer.
 
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EyeballKid said:
It’s Oklahoma. If there’s one state university in America that Trump would be least likely to withhold funding from, it’d be OU.

That said, given that the TA themself is trans, the likelihood of OU actively supporting/standing up for said TA enough to actually take this to court is negligible.

In fact, given the university has gone all-in on MAGA anti-DEI policies, I wouldn’t be surprised if the TA is, uh, “encouraged” by the OU admin to transfer.
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You are wrong. The administration at OU is not what you are claiming. Or at least they weren’t anything like that 30 years ago.

Former senator David Boren was the president for over 20 years. He is far from a conservative.

What I am saying is that the TA will likely take OU to court. OU will offer little to no defense and allow the courts to force OU into reinstate them. Or they will wait until the situation dies down and reinstate the TA.

Is it courageous? No. Had UNC been courageous. Hell no.
 
I will also add that whatever OU is doing, it isn’t because the administration wants it. They are fighting forces which have become very powerful. And, yes, unfortunately those forces are strong in Oklahoma.

And, again, UNC has cut diversity programs because they are battling against the same forces. And few at UNC want it but they’re trying to navigate those turbulent waters just as all universities are. I work for UNC. I see it.
 
Now back to the topic of the “essay.”

I agree with some people that this was a set up from the start. She took the class and wrote a terrible essay to create this situation.

I was thinking that her essay was as if I took a physics class and on a test covering Newton’s law of gravity, I answered the questions stating that gravity doesn’t exist and the earth is flat. Then after getting a zero, I complain that my first amendment rights were violated.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
And instead of just trashing OU, tell me how you would handle this?
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I’m not trashing OU. Honestly.

30 years ago was a long time, particularly when viewed on a pre-Trump 2.0/pre-trans hysteria and anti-DEI timeline.

My understanding is that Governor Stitt has mandated some of the most restrictive anti-DEI policies at state universities, and that OU is complying with these orders.

Given that Oklahoma and West Virginia are the only 2 states in which Trump won every county, and given that the state government is wholly on board with MAGA values, I’m assuming that protecting trans rights in the state isn’t a big priority.

And I’m also assuming that protecting Trans rights isn’t a particular focus of the University admin as result.

Am I wrong in those assumptions?
…………….

As for what I’d do differently, that’s a difficult question to answer. Were I in a position of any authority at OU, I likely wouldn’t do anything differently because I’d fear personal/professional reprisals

In a more liberal state with more public and political support, I hope I’d encourage the admin to stand up for the TA.

Given that the student is *clearly* in the wrong by any academic metric and didn’t comply with the requirements of the assignment, it shouldn’t be a political football.
 
I often teach future teachers and their most asked question is "How can we tell the truth in the classroom?" By that they mean, without being pilloried.

The best answer that I have for them is to let the documents, i.e., the primary sources, do the heavy lifting. That's where the Rightist majority in the NC General Assembly clearly did not think out their mandated Foundations of American Democracy program which orders that The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and Bill of Rights, The Federalist Papers (selections), The Emancipation Proclamation, The Gettysburg Address, and...drum roll please..."The Letter From Birmingham Jail" be read,and student engagement with, be evaluated, before graduating from a UNC System School. These are eye-opening to say the least when read, rather than by 12 year old, but by 18 to 22 year olds. My experience so far in teaching those docs is that they are not having the kind of influence that the Rightist intended.
 
EyeballKid said:
I’m not trashing OU. Honestly.

30 years ago was a long time, particularly when viewed on a pre-Trump 2.0/pre-trans hysteria and anti-DEI timeline.

My understanding is that Governor Stitt has mandated some of the most restrictive anti-DEI policies at state universities, and that OU is complying with these orders.

Given that Oklahoma and West Virginia are the only 2 states in which Trump won every county, and given that the state government is wholly on board with MAGA values, I’m assuming that protecting trans rights in the state isn’t a big priority.

And I’m also assuming that protecting Trans rights isn’t a particular focus of the University admin as result.

Am I wrong in those assumptions?
…………….

As for what I’d do differently, that’s a difficult question to answer. Were I in a position of any authority at OU, I likely wouldn’t do anything differently because I’d fear personal/professional reprisals

In a more liberal state with more public and political support, I hope I’d encourage the admin to stand up for the TA.

Given that the student is *clearly* in the wrong by any academic metric and didn’t comply with the requirements of the assignment, it shouldn’t be a political football.
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That is a fair response. If you present it as the administration having their hand forced by the state government then I would agree. I would also agree that that is not a courageous stance but I am not sure you can be courageous.

And, yes, 35 years is a long time and our political climate has deteriorated in that time.

I put most blame on the state government and Trump. That said, I am considering writing a letter stating that they are harming the value of my undergraduate degree and that I am disappointed in that. If I were a donor I would consider stopping donations.

As for the “every county is red” I think that is a bit misleading. That is mostly a sign of demographics. Oklahoma culturally has a lot of south bible belt in it but does not have near the minority population that much of the south has. We don’t have heavily African American counties that you would see in places like Mississippi. Not that “we aren’t really worse than Mississippi” is much of an argument.

I would say this exact same demographical argument applies to West Virginia.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
As for the “every county is red” I think that is a bit misleading. That is mostly a sign of demographics. Oklahoma culturally has a lot of south bible belt in it but does not have near the minority population that much of the south has. We don’t have heavily African American counties that you would see in places like Mississippi. Not that “we aren’t really worse than Mississippi” is much of an argument.

I would say this exact same demographical argument applies to West Virginia.
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Oklahoma has cities like OKC and Tulsa. Why aren't those counties blue like they are in most every other state? Why aren't Payne (Okla St) and Cleveland (OU) counties blue? Idaho, Utah, Indiana, and Wyoming have blue counties. I don't think "every county is red" is misleading at all about Oklahoma. I would think one of the "university" counties in OK would be blue. OKC is close, but in Cleveland County Trump won by 15%! That's more akin to a remote university county like Knoxville than a county bordering metro like OKC.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
This

This poor girl - she has suffered so much for flunking a poorly-written and argued research paper. How dare that evil Communist Liberal Marxist Godless professor give her a failing grade! That professor's entire academic career must be totally destroyed in vengeance for flunking this Angel of God and Victim of Evil Godless Radical DEI Liberalism!

These people are a combination of deeply insecure batshit crazy loons who want to destroy the lives of anyone who criticizes them in any way, and soulless grifters out to gin up fake outrage and profit from the gullibility of their base. And in her case (and her mom's) I suspect it's some of both.
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BTW, this assignment represents 3% of the total class grade.
 
farce© said:
Oklahoma has cities like OKC and Tulsa. Why aren't those counties blue like they are in most every other state? Why aren't Payne (Okla St) and Cleveland (OU) counties blue? Idaho, Utah, Indiana, and Wyoming have blue counties. I don't think "every county is red" is misleading at all about Oklahoma. I would think one of the "university" counties in OK would be blue. OKC is close, but in Cleveland County Trump won by 15%! That's more akin to a remote university county like Knoxville than a county bordering metro like OKC.
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I am treading on dangerous territory here so I am going to try to be careful with my arguments.

1. You mentioned Wyoming and Idaho. Both went for Trump at higher rates than Oklahoma. That itself is evidence enough that the "every county" argument is flawed because it is highly dependent on geographical distributions. There are two effects that I can think of.

- Wyoming, Utah, and Idaho have liberal pockets in mountain towns.
- Much of the south has areas (and in some cases whole cities) that are majority black. I am not dismissing the political diversity that those areas provide but pointing out that this contributes to uneven political geographical distributions which impacts the "every county" argument.

2. Cleveland County's population is 303k and very suburban (not urban but suburban). The college town influence on the county is far less than a smaller college town. I believe Norman itself is pretty strong Democratic. If you ask my relatives who live in Norman, the town is a liberal hellhole. ;-)

I am not saying all of this to defend politics in Oklahoma. You know I don't agree with the general political sentiment. But I am saying that your arguments imply things that are not true, especially when using the "every county" argument. Oklahoma is one of the most conservative states but not the most and the difference between it and much of the south is mostly due to demographic reasons.


To answer your question about the cities, OKC and Tulsa have far lower African American populations than many comparable cities. I am only mentioning that because you asked.
 
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