We, the Hivemind Examine Vince Gilligan's "Plur1bus"

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an0maly

an0maly

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So Gilligan has circled back to X-Files stuff, but this thing is so far out on a narrative limb it's just incredible. This is science fiction hivemind stuff, which to me was never a really great genre of SF. There was Phase IV, a book and movie about ants forming a collective mind with ETI off Earth and dictating surrender terms to the human race. There's The Borg from the 80's Star Trek stuff. The best I have read are the ending of Clarke's Childhood's End, and the crazy-great Echopraxia, by Peter Watts.

Hive mind (27 books)

27 books based on 22 votes: Ender’s Game by Orson Scott Card, Childhood’s End by Arthur C. Clarke, To Marry Medusa by Theodore Sturgeon, A Fire Upon the ...
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This thing starts off like Sagan's Contact -- somewhat -- with a lot of humor, and then proposes creating --from ETI radio signal-- an RNA snip that is put into humans, and viola, hivemind. I'm sorry, what? I don't know if this is fantasy, which the series starts out making fun of in big ways, or an attempt at something more serious in science fiction. But, wow, he has certainly set up something weirder than most anything major television shows have come up with. Also, I have no idea how this could go and keep interest.

Explaining himself:

collider.com

Vince Gilligan Has Never Made a Show Like Apple TV's 'Pluribus': "It's Got a Bigger Scope Than Anything I've Ever Done Before"

Vince Gilligan discusses the decade-long journey to making Apple TV's Pluribus and the challenges of bringing the unique concept to life.
collider.com collider.com
 
I have too much TV to watch. I just started Severance. I also need to watch the second season of Andor.

That said, Vince Gilligan obviously knows how to make a TV show.
 


So the situation of people following a religious leader is a different thing from people being in a hivemind, but this brilliant scene from Monty Python's Life of Brian struck me as hilariously akin to Carol's agonizing problem in Pluribus. There is zero possibility of convincing a hivemind that something is terribly wrong with being a hivemind, in this case as opposed to the individuals "it" once was before. The hivemind is always continuously making decisions to be in its happy place. Smile.

The other analogy I think of is conversations I have with Chat GPT in several forms, and I would wade into a discussion of philosophy or art, and it would get a factual detail way wrong or hallucinate something, I'd correct it, and it would blandly respond with something like, "Oh sure, you are correct. Thanks for that." Headslap moment, and you realize that no, you are not talking to anything close to a consciousness, but a sophisticated non-mind slave just combining all available answers worldwide into a mishmash answer.

It's hard for any of us to imagine the thoughts change of becoming part of a hivemind, but Carol's fear says she knows exactly what it means. If any one of us were enfolded into this our personal interests, all that we think important in any way, would be basically eliminated into the noise mishmash of the collective interests and thought of what is important. Carol's problem is she can't convince the other eleven people left like her that this loss is real. In a way she is dealing with people like Brian is above.

A point and some questions (please, anyone offer ideas).

The ETI who sent the signal are not active on Earth in any way. They set traps and we jumped in. When humanity collectively talks to Carol through the TV they admit they *{we, the hivemind of Earth humans}* don't know how the virus works, just what super-wonderful-happy stuff it has done.
  1. Why does the ETI system for uniting humanity into a hivemind fail with 11 people?
  2. Why does the system fail (worldwide) when Carol gets extremely angry with another person? Why do the others go into standing epileptic fit behavior at these times?
  3. Why does the “system,” whatever it is, seek to please and fulfill every wish these 11 people have until it can “fix” their difference problem?
  4. Given the success and complexity of what they have already accomplished, how could they possibly fail at all with these 11 people?
  5. Why is that none of the other remaining normal humans care about what has happened to the human race?
 
an0maly said:


So the situation of people following a religious leader is a different thing from people being in a hivemind, but this brilliant scene from Monty Python's Life of Brian struck me as hilariously akin to Carol's agonizing problem in Pluribus. There is zero possibility of convincing a hivemind that something is terribly wrong with being a hivemind, in this case as opposed to the individuals "it" once was before. The hivemind is always continuously making decisions to be in its happy place. Smile.

The other analogy I think of is conversations I have with Chat GPT in several forms, and I would wade into a discussion of philosophy or art, and it would get a factual detail way wrong or hallucinate something, I'd correct it, and it would blandly respond with something like, "Oh sure, you are correct. Thanks for that." Headslap moment, and you realize that no, you are not talking to anything close to a consciousness, but a sophisticated non-mind slave just combining all available answers worldwide into a mishmash answer.

It's hard for any of us to imagine the thoughts change of becoming part of a hivemind, but Carol's fear says she knows exactly what it means. If any one of us were enfolded into this our personal interests, all that we think important in any way, would be basically eliminated into the noise mishmash of the collective interests and thought of what is important. Carol's problem is she can't convince the other eleven people left like her that this loss is real. In a way she is dealing with people like Brian is above.

A point and some questions (please, anyone offer ideas).

The ETI who sent the signal are not active on Earth in any way. They set traps and we jumped in. When humanity collectively talks to Carol through the TV they admit they *{we, the hivemind of Earth humans}* don't know how the virus works, just what super-wonderful-happy stuff it has done.
  1. Why does the ETI system for uniting humanity into a hivemind fail with 11 people?
  2. Why does the system fail (worldwide) when Carol gets extremely angry with another person? Why do the others go into standing epileptic fit behavior at these times?
  3. Why does the “system,” whatever it is, seek to please and fulfill every wish these 11 people have until it can “fix” their difference problem?
  4. Given the success and complexity of what they have already accomplished, how could they possibly fail at all with these 11 people?
  5. Why is that none of the other remaining normal humans care about what has happened to the human race?
Click to expand...

For number 5 one has to wonder if they are not being more realistic. Honestly what can Carol do?

In this situation I may do as Koumba did and just enjoy life with a world of servants. I do like that he showed up in Air Force 1.

But there has to be more to it.
1) not only why didn't it work for them, but why do they care about the 11?
2) Maybe that's why they care about the 11, if the 11 can get mad and shut them down, that is a weakness that could be exploited.
3) Probably trying to keep them from thinking like Carol.

I agree with the analogy of chatGPT.

I also have some off the wall questions about eating and animals. If they will not kill any animal, isn't that a risk to all of them? They did mention some being gored by the Lions. Plus releasing them from zoos will integrate them in areas they are not native to, which could create more imbalance.
 
I would think the other uninfected people would want to get rid of Carol because she is a clear danger to them. Imagine she did that while they were flying somewhere.
 
Definitely plan to watch.

Mostly wanted to second the notion that Echopraxia (and Blindsight) are fucking incredible. Peter Watt's website Echopraxia is great. The video on vampires is one of the most brilliant/funny/disturbing things I've ever seen - Rifters.com: Blindsight
 
If my anger could kill 11 million folks after the aliens killed 88 million the world would likely have a kinda dinosaur apocalypse!
ETA: It would fuck up the aliens plan at least!
 
Watched episode 3 last night.

I can understand the anxiety of knowing they are working to assimilate her and missing her friend.

There isn't a realistic path where she can convert the population back, so I believe of i were where she is, I would consider taking advantage.
 
an0maly said:


So the situation of people following a religious leader is a different thing from people being in a hivemind, but this brilliant scene from Monty Python's Life of Brian struck me as hilariously akin to Carol's agonizing problem in Pluribus. There is zero possibility of convincing a hivemind that something is terribly wrong with being a hivemind, in this case as opposed to the individuals "it" once was before. The hivemind is always continuously making decisions to be in its happy place. Smile.

The other analogy I think of is conversations I have with Chat GPT in several forms, and I would wade into a discussion of philosophy or art, and it would get a factual detail way wrong or hallucinate something, I'd correct it, and it would blandly respond with something like, "Oh sure, you are correct. Thanks for that." Headslap moment, and you realize that no, you are not talking to anything close to a consciousness, but a sophisticated non-mind slave just combining all available answers worldwide into a mishmash answer.

It's hard for any of us to imagine the thoughts change of becoming part of a hivemind, but Carol's fear says she knows exactly what it means. If any one of us were enfolded into this our personal interests, all that we think important in any way, would be basically eliminated into the noise mishmash of the collective interests and thought of what is important. Carol's problem is she can't convince the other eleven people left like her that this loss is real. In a way she is dealing with people like Brian is above.

A point and some questions (please, anyone offer ideas).

The ETI who sent the signal are not active on Earth in any way. They set traps and we jumped in. When humanity collectively talks to Carol through the TV they admit they *{we, the hivemind of Earth humans}* don't know how the virus works, just what super-wonderful-happy stuff it has done.
  1. Why does the ETI system for uniting humanity into a hivemind fail with 11 people?
  2. Why does the system fail (worldwide) when Carol gets extremely angry with another person? Why do the others go into standing epileptic fit behavior at these times?
  3. Why does the “system,” whatever it is, seek to please and fulfill every wish these 11 people have until it can “fix” their difference problem?
  4. Given the success and complexity of what they have already accomplished, how could they possibly fail at all with these 11 people?
  5. Why is that none of the other remaining normal humans care about what has happened to the human race?
Click to expand...

“Only the true messiah denies his own divinity!”
“Well, what sort of chance does that give me? Okay, I am the messiah!”
“HE IS THE MESSIAH!”
 
UNCatTech said:
Watched episode 3 last night.

I can understand the anxiety of knowing they are working to assimilate her and missing her friend.

There isn't a realistic path where she can convert the population back, so I believe of i were where she is, I would consider taking advantage.
Click to expand...
I think she intuits, quite correctly, that if she is joined up with the hive, she dies. As I wrote, that is the essence of the situation, as everything --every single thing-- about her personality and uniqueness, including her now cherished memories of her lover, would be totally lost in the ocean of noise that is the blenderizing of 8 billion brains. Aside from your losses, in some senses, this represents an awful thing: if you combine as a mode, the thoughts of all those brains then a good meal is McDonald's burgers, a good movie is a Michael Bay film, and so on and so on. But the collective hive mind has amalgamated good ethics, always helpful ethics, including something not unlike Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics, that a robot will do what a human wants, though it will not allow a human to come to harm, even through inaction.

Thus the great scene last episode (which had been kind of stuck retreading the story we already had a bit too much of, until it literally got explosive) of her asking for a nuclear weapon. Asking for it was her test of their principles. There is no fear the hive has of losing even millions of human bodies, as it uses billions of them. It's just, clean up on aisle four.

I am really liking this, but I do think the story needs to move forward beyond her being upset with everything. I think her cussing the new-found independent man discovered in Paraguay was to show him she was also genuinely independent. If they combine forces to work against the hive mind, that could open a lot of story options.
 
Ok my thoughts - spoilers ahead


When carol asks the guy if the joining can be reversed and he won't tell her she assumes that that means it can be reversed - but another possibility is they know it can't be reversed but they don't want to tell her that because they know that will make her unhappy

Also if she keeps causing problems - she's almost killed the the lady pirate twice - if they will at some point try to isolate her
 
Enjoyed the last episode much more, and now we've got some new implications. Looks like her book outline on the white board is being fulfilled in some freaky and chance way, e.g., Raban (Zosia in real life) may "die for real this time." So if forced into full truth about a "cure" does the hive cough up a kind of psychological fur ball? And now, Manuosos! Very interesting paranoid, who wants more of a fight than Carol does. In the stuff I've read and videos, most which are not that good, this one stood out about possibilities (worth the time):

 
My theory, which is always wrong but just for fun.

The hive mind is actually an attempt to save humanity. An advanced alien lifeform who is being overtaken by an even more advanced life forms sends this signal to earth so that they can fight off the most advanced life forms. Making all humanity hive minds rapidly increases technological advances preparing humanity to defend itself. Once the advances have reached a sufficient level the biological programming will shut off. Carol is unknowingly risking humanities future.

Don’t know how eating dead people plays into that.
 
UNCatTech said:
Are they eating the dead humans?
Click to expand...
Carol's reaction was delayed horror. I think she recognized children, or babies as well, as the source for the "milk" that feeds all the hivemind brains. We have seen no young children, and of course, they would not add much to the hivemind.

I need to say, this episode had one of the most idiotic things I have seen in any show, in the depiction of wolves as spending time trying to dig up a grave, and not running when threatened by a human. Wolves would hunt animals, and are highly intelligent about avoiding people. These also were out of place unless released from a zoo, and also many miles out of place if endangered red wolves. Just really idiotic.

However, it seems really problematic to make them all into their special "milk," as human brains must, (we think?), still reproduce for the hivemind to continue. Are they making dead ones into milk and keeping the others sequestered apart in some way?
 
an0maly said:
Carol's reaction was delayed horror. I think she recognized children, or babies as well, as the source for the "milk" that feeds all the hivemind brains. We have seen no young children, and of course, they would not add much to the hivemind.

I need to say, this episode had one of the most idiotic things I have seen in any show, in the depiction of wolves as spending time trying to dig up a grave, and not running when threatened by a human. Wolves would hunt animals, and are highly intelligent about avoiding people. These also were out of place unless released from a zoo, and also many miles out of place if endangered red wolves. Just really idiotic.

However, it seems really problematic to make them all into their special "milk," as human brains must, (we think?), still reproduce for the hivemind to continue. Are they making dead ones into milk and keeping the others sequestered apart in some way?
Click to expand...
There are a few kids, a chubby probably 12 year old boy in the hospital, one of the 12's kid, but I agree we don't see many, which doesn't make sense as they need to continue to have more people, as you mentioned. They also have millions of people that died in the takeover, to make into milk, and that is a potential reason for them collecting all of the bodies. Maybe the hive mind is something the aliens send first to prepare the plant for their arrival? Once they arrive maybe they no longer need the humans?

Yea, the wolf thing was silly, I guess just wanting to reiterate, again, how much she loved and misses her partner.

Of course, even though they are taking "Space", If I were Carol I would have told them to send out a person to clean up the trash.

But, I'm still favoring that there is no potential to revert back, so I would be taking advantage of the situation.

Still overall interesting concept.
 
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