superrific
Inconceivable Member
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In another thread, CRHeel posted:
"Every country has the right (actually, the responsibility) to control its borders. Illegal immigration is problem just on this concern. Its paramount to be able to monitor who's coming in."
I think this deserves its own thread, because there's a significant philosophical question here. Let's start with the first two words. We would never say that about "Every state." Indeed, states in the US don't have any right to control their borders. Why not? It's in the constitution, but maybe we should change the constitution. Maybe states should put up border crossings and screen people who are coming in. It sure would be a lot more efficient for Texas to open its southern border and close its northern one.
Second, one of the core principles of the EU is "free movement of people." That is, in terms of population movement, European countries are just like U.S. states. Everyone can come and go as they please. So are these countries failing to live up to their responsibilities to control their borders? The UK MAGAs decided they didn't like this so they Brexited and that turned out to be a huge fucking disaster. Sort of like what is going to happen when Trump starts rounding up immigrants. But elsewhere in Europe, the system seems to work pretty well.
It just seems to me that, if you live in North Carolina, your life is more affected by people migrating from Indiana than Mexico. And there's no reason (other than racism) to think that people from Mexico are somehow worse than Hoosiers. Both groups can take your job. Both groups can commit crimes. Both groups can drive up rents by increasing housing demand. Any effect caused by Mexicans can be just as readily caused by Hoosiers.
So maybe we can think about this question. Also if anyone knows the book "Imagined Communities" I'd love to hear thoughts about it. I'm familiar with it but never read it, and it was a long time ago. I don't know how it's aged. But the whole idea is that nations are just that -- imagined communities. It's the idea that for some reason, we think of people as our neighbors and friends even when our lives don't overlap at all because we live hundreds or thousands of miles away.
"Every country has the right (actually, the responsibility) to control its borders. Illegal immigration is problem just on this concern. Its paramount to be able to monitor who's coming in."
I think this deserves its own thread, because there's a significant philosophical question here. Let's start with the first two words. We would never say that about "Every state." Indeed, states in the US don't have any right to control their borders. Why not? It's in the constitution, but maybe we should change the constitution. Maybe states should put up border crossings and screen people who are coming in. It sure would be a lot more efficient for Texas to open its southern border and close its northern one.
Second, one of the core principles of the EU is "free movement of people." That is, in terms of population movement, European countries are just like U.S. states. Everyone can come and go as they please. So are these countries failing to live up to their responsibilities to control their borders? The UK MAGAs decided they didn't like this so they Brexited and that turned out to be a huge fucking disaster. Sort of like what is going to happen when Trump starts rounding up immigrants. But elsewhere in Europe, the system seems to work pretty well.
It just seems to me that, if you live in North Carolina, your life is more affected by people migrating from Indiana than Mexico. And there's no reason (other than racism) to think that people from Mexico are somehow worse than Hoosiers. Both groups can take your job. Both groups can commit crimes. Both groups can drive up rents by increasing housing demand. Any effect caused by Mexicans can be just as readily caused by Hoosiers.
So maybe we can think about this question. Also if anyone knows the book "Imagined Communities" I'd love to hear thoughts about it. I'm familiar with it but never read it, and it was a long time ago. I don't know how it's aged. But the whole idea is that nations are just that -- imagined communities. It's the idea that for some reason, we think of people as our neighbors and friends even when our lives don't overlap at all because we live hundreds or thousands of miles away.