Wondering who has been running the country

  • Thread starter Thread starter chrissteel
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 94
  • Views: 2K
  • Politics 
"Nevermind that the alternative to Biden was another geezer who in addition to being old has shown a stunning lack of morals/ethics. Nevermind that the Democrats did ultimately dump their old guy while the Republicans doubled down on theirs as he was spewing complete lies. Nevermind that the original premise of the thread was based on a misinformed take. None of that matters. How do we communicate in this climate?"
 

Six key people protected the president.

Jill Biden, the first lady, and Hunter Biden, his surviving son, fervently believed in his ability to win. Mr. Donilon and Steve Ricchetti, the counselor to Mr. Biden, knew when and how to deliver information, along with Annie Tomasini, the deputy chief of staff. She and Anthony Bernal, the first lady’s most senior aide, took tight control over the president’s public schedule.

Can I ask you a question? I cannot answer this from my constituents in Louisiana,” Johnson recalled telling Biden. “Sir, why did you pause LNG exports to Europe? Liquefied natural gas is in great demand by our allies. Why would you do that? Cause you understand we just talked about Ukraine, you understand you are fueling Vladimir Putin’s war machine, because they gotta get their gas from him.”

Biden, according to Johnson, was stunned. “I didn’t do that,” Biden said. Johnson responded, “Mr. President, yes you did. It was an executive order like three weeks ago.” Biden continued to deny that he paused the LNG exports. At that point, Johnson suggested that the president ask the president’s secretary to print out the executive order, so the two could read it together.

Biden then recalled that he had signed an executive order, but it only called for a study on the effects of LNG. Johnson was firm. “Sir, you paused it, I know. I have the export terminals in my state. I talked to those people in my state, I’ve talked to those people this morning, this is doing massive damage to our economy, national security.”

In this exchange, Johnson said he realized that Biden was not lying to him. “He genuinely did not know what he had signed,” Johnson said. “And I walked out of that meeting with fear and loathing because I thought, “We are in serious trouble—who is running the country?” Like, I don’t know who put the paper in front of him, but he didn’t know.”

On January 26, 2024, the white house — announced “a temporary pause on pending decisions on exports of Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) to non-FTA countries until the Department of Energy can update the underlying analyses for authorizations.” The White House meeting Johnson described was February 27, 2024.

When his staff rolled out a teleprompter for him to use while making remarks at small fund-raisers in private homes, Biden just nodded and went along with it. It never struck him as peculiar that he, the president of the United States, was expected to stick to prepared remarks at an off-camera Democratic fundraiser with only one print reporter in the room.

He never met with his pollsters from his reelection campaign, and that didn’t seem abnormal to him.
Ah, so THIS is why Vladimir Putin wanted Trump in the oval office instead of Biden... because Biden was [checks notes] helping to fuel Putin’s war machine. Well done, chris, you cracked the case!
 
I think the primary process is a really good way of getting a good candidate, or maybe a better way to say it is that the lack of a primary, outside of an incumbent situation, is a high risk of a bad candidate.

Candidates that look really good on paper, like Hillary, can look like head scratching mistakes when they get on the campaign trail. Frontrunners like JEB and Howard Dean can get exposed pretty quickly. And really good candidates, who look like absolute long shots at the beginning of the race like Bill, Obama and even Trump, can really surprise you. The primaries kind of sort all that.

I realize that Kamala, and the Democrats in general, got dealt a bad hand but they can at least learn from it in the future.
Not sure how any of that really changes what I said. Hillary won a contested primary. Could having a primary have helped? Sure. Could it have made things worse? Sure. Anyone who says they know what would have worked is lying.
 
Here's how i understand the LNG process. Plants need a permit to export. Normally the permits are for 10-20 years. The companies then enter long-term contracts for exports to specific countries. The plants cost 10-20 billion to construct and contracts in place allow for easier financing/investment to finish and put them in operation. While permits are held up other countries are getting the contracts in place. Qatar has been getting many of them in 2024. Export are growing due to prior years construction and permitting. The industry is exploding and we are losing ground.
None of that means that the US paused LNG exports to Europe or anywhere else. We're the leading importer of LNG worldwide. If Mike Johnson is going to lie to Biden about what he did, he shouldn't be surprised when Biden doesn't understand what he means.
 
Well, I suppose now that Biden is gone, we can put aside any preconceived notions for the next 4 years and with an open mind discuss the policies of an old geezer with a stunning lack of morals/ethics who spews complete lies.
Do you think it's debatable that Trump lacks morals/ethics and spews complete lies? Love him or hate him I think people pretty much agree about all that. The people who love him just happen to think those are positive traits, not negative ones.
 
Here's the concerning aspect, and I believe it's a byproduct of today's political environment. It seems pretty clear, given that cabinet meetings were canceled in late 2023, that the people around him knew that he was no longer able to handle the day-to-day responsibilities of the presidency. That being the case, he was permitted to not only continue through the end of his presidency, but allowed to run for reelection.
"Permitted." "Allowed." These words imply that the people you're talking about somehow had the ability to compel Biden to do something.
 
Seems to me Dems should be the mad ones. Clearly he should not have run for reelection but no one apparently told him him he couldn't win or that he didn't have the mental capacity to be President. It is incredible this could have happened. This could cost dems the supreme court for a generation
Ever tried telling your grandpa he's too old to drive anymore? I don't think anyone ever believes they're too old to do something they've been doing pretty much their entire lives. If I'm disappointed in the Dems, it's not because they didn't take Joe's keys away; it's because they've been letting the right-wing media take their lunch money for so long that, now, over half of Americans can't tell "alternative facts" from the actual truth.
 
"Permitted." "Allowed." These words imply that the people you're talking about somehow had the ability to compel Biden to do something.
Obviously they can't force him to not run again. There are constitutional methods to remove him from office. Those methods may seem extreme, which I get.

In lieu of invoking the 25th amendment, those around him could have not covered up for him. They could have made it public that he's unable to have cabinet meetings, was lacking in/losing cognitive functionality, run someone against him, which would force him to actively campaign.

People who have the best interests of the country in mind, find ways to not insert into the presidency, for 4 more years, someone who can't handle the day-to-day rigors today.

It appears to have been one big cover-up until it couldn't be covered up any more.
 
Obviously they can't force him to not run again. There are constitutional methods to remove him from office. Those methods may seem extreme, which I get.

In lieu of invoking the 25th amendment, those around him could have not covered up for him. They could have made it public that he's unable to have cabinet meetings, was lacking in/losing cognitive functionality, run someone against him, which would force him to actively campaign.

People who have the best interests of the country in mind, find ways to not insert into the presidency, for 4 more years, someone who can't handle the day-to-day rigors today.

It appears to have been one big cover-up until it couldn't be covered up any more.
People who don't want to undermine the country wouldn't do that during the best recovery of anyone from Covid. What steps should have been taken to keep him from running again should not include anything that would have negated the programs put into place during his term. If the party knew, then they are at fault for not promoting a primary challenge. I think it would be a disaster for the country for it to come from inside the administration.
 
Obviously they can't force him to not run again. There are constitutional methods to remove him from office. Those methods may seem extreme, which I get.

In lieu of invoking the 25th amendment, those around him could have not covered up for him. They could have made it public that he's unable to have cabinet meetings, was lacking in/losing cognitive functionality, run someone against him, which would force him to actively campaign.

People who have the best interests of the country in mind, find ways to not insert into the presidency, for 4 more years, someone who can't handle the day-to-day rigors today.

It appears to have been one big cover-up until it couldn't be covered up any more.
Some of those people in the inner circle (especially Jill and Hunter) likely acted out of self-interest. But I suspect others who were part of the "cover up" legitimately believed that having a fading Biden as president was preferable to Trump. I'm not sure I entirely disagree with that analysis.

I'll also note that I suspect at least some of those around Biden at least tried to discourage Joe from running again. We'll likely never know exactly how those conversations went, though.
 
Not sure how any of that really changes what I said. Hillary won a contested primary. Could having a primary have helped? Sure. Could it have made things worse? Sure. Anyone who says they know what would have worked is lying.
Yeah. I don't want to imply that it contradicts what you said. I just wanted to note that a primary is a pretty good way of getting a good candidate.

I suppose Hillary had a somewhat contested primary. Certainly Bernie, but all the mainstream Democratic candidates got out of her way very early under party pressure with the exception of a relatively unknown O'Malley. That's not what happened to an anointed like say JEB where he was exposed fairly quickly and the Republicans got a winning candidate out of it. They can occasionally go the other way like with Reagan and Ford but on the whole, I think you're better off having a somewhat bruising primary.
 
Do you think it's debatable that Trump lacks morals/ethics and spews complete lies? Love him or hate him I think people pretty much agree about all that. The people who love him just happen to think those are positive traits, not negative ones.
No. I think he lacks morals and ethics and I think he lies more than almost any other politician. But that's my preconceived notion of him.
 
No. I think he lacks morals and ethics and I think he lies more than almost any other politician. But that's my preconceived notion of him.
Well I can't speak for you but my own impression that Trump lacks morals and ethics and lies constantly is not based on any "preconceived notion" but on my direct personal observation of him, his statements, and his actions.
 
Well I can't speak for you but my own impression that Trump lacks morals and ethics and lies constantly is not based on any "preconceived notion" but on my direct personal observation of him, his statements, and his actions.
Well I suspect Zen and anyone else's notions of Biden's deteriorating qualifications for running the country and running for re-elections were also based on direct personal observation, Biden's statements and Biden's actions.
 
Some of those people in the inner circle (especially Jill and Hunter) likely acted out of self-interest. But I suspect others who were part of the "cover up" legitimately believed that having a fading Biden as president was preferable to Trump. I'm not sure I entirely disagree with that analysis.

I'll also note that I suspect at least some of those around Biden at least tried to discourage Joe from running again. We'll likely never know exactly how those conversations went, though.
The obvious irony is that the decisions of Democrats, including those involving Harris, ended up possibly giving Trump the win.

In a time when there is so much distrust of government and the media, I wonder if honesty about Biden's condition would not have been a positive. We will probably never know.
 
Yeah. I don't want to imply that it contradicts what you said. I just wanted to note that a primary is a pretty good way of getting a good candidate.

I suppose Hillary had a somewhat contested primary. Certainly Bernie, but all the mainstream Democratic candidates got out of her way very early under party pressure with the exception of a relatively unknown O'Malley. That's not what happened to an anointed like say JEB where he was exposed fairly quickly and the Republicans got a winning candidate out of it. They can occasionally go the other way like with Reagan and Ford but on the whole, I think you're better off having a somewhat bruising primary.
Primaries gave us: our first old growth candidate, Bob Dole
GWB (who won through mendacity and barely, barely so -- and was a terrible, terrible president).
John Kerry (ugh)
John McCain (double ugh(
Mitt Romney (who wouldn't have been a terrible president, probably, but his own base didn't like him)

So sure, if you only count the hits the batting average looks OK. Primaries are bad in this day and age because the old Reagan maxim of "don't speak ill of your own party" is badly outdated. Almost all campaigning is negative, which is why primaries have become destructive. The Dem primary process in 2020 would have likely led to electoral defeat had the Dems not almost immediately coalesced around Joe (thus de facto eschewing the primary). Which is to say, the Dems got a winning candidate in 2020 despite the primaries, not because of them.
 
The obvious irony is that the decisions of Democrats, including those involving Harris, ended up possibly giving Trump the win.

In a time when there is so much distrust of government and the media, I wonder if honesty about Biden's condition would not have been a positive. We will probably never know.
We're talking about things no one could possibly know or prove here, but I don't necessarily agree that "the decisions of Democrats, including those involving Harris, ended up possibly giving Trump the win." Swing voters' main motivation appeared to be consumer prices and immigration more than anything. They wanted a change from the administration they blamed for those things. Not sure what anything Harris or anyone did had to do with that, though I certainly disagreed with some of the decisions she and her campaign made.

ETA: I certainly don't think it would have meant anything in terms of distrust of government and the media. Trump and his allies would have been screeching about fake news and calling the media and Dems liars no matter what. The right-wing campaign to undermine trust in government and the media has been incredibly effective, to the great disadvantage of all of us.
 
Well I suspect Zen and anyone else's notions of Biden's deteriorating qualifications for running the country and running for re-elections were also based on direct personal observation, Biden's statements and Biden's actions.
OK - but what does that have to do with anything I've said?
 
Swing voters' main motivation appeared to be consumer prices and immigration more than anything. They wanted a change from the administration they blamed for those things. Not sure what anything Harris or anyone did had to do with that, though I certainly disagreed with some of the decisions she and her campaign made.
Bigotry. It was mostly bigotry. It is really, really hard to look at what actually happened in that campaign and conclude otherwise. Trump didn't run against Biden or Harris. He ran against trans people, black people, brown people, Venezuelans, MS-13, etc. When they said, "Kamala is for they/them," everyone knows what was meant there. It wasn't only about trans people.

I mean, if you trust polls of people who have no incentive to be truthful with pollsters (and perhaps not with themselves), sure. But if you look at what happened in slow motion for months and months, a different picture emerges. And if you look at what happened afterwards, it's even clearer.
 
Back
Top