2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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quakerdevil said:
"But but they said both options were bad!"
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There are plenty of Muslim Americans and Arab Americans who are more aligned with Trump on social issues anyway, particularly LGBTQ+ and women’s rights. Far from all, of course, but the shared belief in patriarchy among some of these potential voters probably makes it easier to say fuck it, both sides will support my relatives getting killed by Israel, at least one side agrees with me on the gays.

We’ve seen similar realignment among conservative Latino voters. Sure, Trump wants to deport me and my family IF WE ARE criminals, which we are not, but he agrees that men should run things with an iron fist.

The progressive faith that demographics is destiny has always struck me as far too simplistic and somewhat insulting. It is important to acknowledge and correct racial injustice but that doesn’t mean targeted classes are any more monolithic than other classes.
 
nycfan said:
The progressive faith that demographics is destiny has always struck me as far too simplistic and somewhat insulting. It is important to acknowledge and correct racial injustice but that doesn’t mean targeted classes are any more monolithic than other classes.
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It’s way too positive.

Totally whistling past the graveyard that entire ethnic groups will be accepting of all progressive issues.
 
Paine said:
I don’t think anyone argues that all ethnic groups will be accepting of progressive issues. Muslim immigrants and Christians at home have literally the same views on these issues. It’s not a matter of ethnicity. The problem is conservative religion.

There are plenty of Muslims who are accepting of these things, just like there are Christians (some on this board) who are accepting.
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I was just speaking to the “demographics is destiny” types nyc was talking about. In the last 2 cycles we’ve seen Latino margins shift rightward. A lot of people seemed to think it was just a matter of outnumbering whites and then it was on lock.
 
Insane to me, and purely anecdotal, but I have both a conservative anti-trump Jewish friend (voted 3rd party '16 and '20 but otherwise is typically Republican) and a progressive Muslim friend (HRC and Biden in '16 and '20) that are both voting for Trump over Israel/Palestine.

Both are UNC grads. Quite disappointing but can't break through to either of them over the social media / propaganda out there. Dems are in quite the lose-lose with I/P, and despite knowing Trump will make everything significantly worse he somehow seems to them to be the better option.
 
heel17 said:
Insane to me, and purely anecdotal, but I have both a conservative anti-trump Jewish friend (voted 3rd party '16 and '20 but otherwise is typically Republican) and a progressive Muslim friend (HRC and Biden in '16 and '20) that are both voting for Trump over Israel/Palestine.

Both are UNC grads. Quite disappointing but can't break through to either of them over the social media / propaganda out there. Dems are in quite the lose-lose with I/P, and despite knowing Trump will make everything significantly worse he somehow seems to them to be the better option.
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Did you remind them that Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner is a real estate developer? And that Trump himself has said that the Gaza coast line is the best? And that he has literally talked about developing condos there? There are clips for them to see.

What is going to happen if Trump is elected: Netanyahu will drive the Gazans north to Lebanon and then destroy southern Lebanon and then occupy it as the new Gaza.

You might ask them how they are going to feel if they have enabled a genocide. If Harris is elected, the war will wind down probably not to their liking but there will be stability. If Trump is elected, there will be no more Palestinians. They will be killed and/or pushed out. And they will be at fault.
 
superrific said:
Did you remind them that Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner is a real estate developer? And that Trump himself has said that the Gaza coast line is the best? And that he has literally talked about developing condos there? There are clips for them to see.

What is going to happen if Trump is elected: Netanyahu will drive the Gazans north to Lebanon and then destroy southern Lebanon and then occupy it as the new Gaza.

You might ask them how they are going to feel if they have enabled a genocide. If Harris is elected, the war will wind down probably not to their liking but there will be stability. If Trump is elected, there will be no more Palestinians. They will be killed and/or pushed out. And they will be at fault.
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For the Jewish friend that might be more of a feature than a bug after Oct 7th. Fearful of rising anti-semitism and US abandoning Israel in the long run.

For the Muslim friend - they are firmly in the camp of "genocide is already occuring under Dems so the only way to get the Dems to stop supporting genocide is to punish them". Doesn't make sense to you or I but not an uncommon viewpoint amongst certain groups.

Throw in a little social media and constant doom-scrolling and it's tough to get people to snap out of it, even if they agree with your points in general.
 
Ttump won’t care if bibi napalms the entirety of Gaza, but at least liberals will be sad and hopefully persecuted. Cool cool. The $5 mil ttump tower - Gaza condos will have sick views.

I guess at some point in our evolution humans learned retribution is adaptive?
 
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lawtig02 said:
The late stage anxiety is understandable, but just know that objectively, this is the exact same race it’s been since July. If you felt ok about Kamala two months ago, there’s no objective reason to feel differently now. None of the ads, news stories, rallies, etc. have made or will make any difference. It’s all about who shows up at the polls between now and 7:00pm on 11/5, and there are plenty of reasons to think that will turn out well for Kamala in the areas she needs.
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It could just be late stage anxiety. It could be my lack of faith in the American people. Electing Harris means overcoming racism AND misogyny.
 
LeoBloom said:
And maybe it’s just Sunday morning blahs, or maybe it’s the inundation of Trump ads, or maybe it’s that I only see the same Harris ads, the same ones I’ve seen for the last month, nothing new to highlight Kelly’s comments, or Trump’s latest craziness, or maybe it’s that I’m out of touch with new media. Could be all of that.
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She rolls out new ads daily.
 
Paine said:
Article in the NYT about the Muslim mayor who endorsed Trump, but I can’t find it atm.

Of course, he talks about Gaza and Trump claiming to want to end wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Low info Muslim voters who don’t know what Trump did last time may buy this, but I think nycfan’s comment above gets more at the heart.

A segment of Muslims in the United States have social conservative views in the same ways Christians do. It was only a matter of time before the right was able to co-opt this hate.

This was a liberal town that accepted people from Syria with open arms. Now, a Muslim majority on the council has voted to remove the LGBTQ+ flag from the city hall.

This isn’t an argument about whether we should or shouldn’t accept immigrants in from socially conservative areas, because I think we should.

But we need to do a much better job educating and providing opportunities for these people once they’re here. Same thing that happens with domestic Christians who aren’t educated or shown the world.
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I am sure Stephen Miller will give them plenty of opportunity when he rolls into town.
 
mpaer said:
Just now we had a young lady knock on our door (middle of Garner ) pushing Dems in the election
She was bussed down from Boston yesterday Holy Moly the National dems are taking NC seriously
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They need something to offset the loss of Michigan.
 
altmin said:
I am probably over reacting and applying to much weight on past elections while not considering the Dobbs decision effect.
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Not saying it’s not close and some anxiety isn’t warranted (I still have 2016 PTSD), but so many things have happened since then. Trump has his supporters locked in. They would vote for him if a video surfaced of him in gay porn. He has their vote. Honestly feel that Kamala and her campaign (campaign staff and surrogates) are reaching the people who aren’t Trump loyalists. At what percentage we don’t know but do feel it’s resonating. Don’t have to sway them all. It’s all about the margins. Her numbers look good. Just have trust in great turnout. I am trying to be positive in light of my anxiety :)
 
I have a farm in rural western N.C.- nearest (small) town is 20 miles away. Since I dropped church a few years ago I often take my ancient jeep for a tour of the back roads on Sunday morning. Today I drove for an hour. Pertinent findings: 1) 11 Trump signs in yards vs. 6 Harris/Walz signs. Two of the Trump signs were recycled 2020 signs. In 2020 the count would have been Trump 20, Biden 1. Many of the houses that had multiple Trump signs in 2020 are sign free in 2024. Is this a sign of decreased enthusiasm? This area is perhaps the most Republican area of the state. 2) More donkeys in pastures than Trump signs. 3) I thought my storm damage was bad. 4) Hundreds of acres of unharvested corn. Mine was finished 3 weeks ago. If it starts raining they'll be sorry they waited.
 
DiehardHeelFan said:
Not saying it’s not close and some anxiety isn’t warranted (I still have 2016 PTSD), but so many things have happened since then. Trump has his supporters locked in. They would vote for him if a video surfaced of him in gay porn. He has their vote. Honestly feel that Kamala and her campaign (campaign staff and surrogates) are reaching the people who aren’t Trump loyalists. At what percentage we don’t know but do feel it’s resonating. Don’t have to sway them all. It’s all about the margins. Her numbers look good. Just have trust in great turnout. I am trying to be positive in light of my anxiety :)
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I mean I know someone in the campaign did the math and decided that reaching out to the Muslim vote would open them up to too many pro Israel voters defecting.

It's always easier to run as the alternative to the current regime because you can tell two groups of unhappy people that the problem is the party in power, even if what you are selling is the opposite to those disaffected groups. People just want their complaints amplified and don't think past them.
 
altmin said:
I mean I know someone in the campaign did the math and decided that reaching out to the Muslim vote would open them up to too many pro Israel voters defecting.

It's always easier to run as the alternative to the current regime because you can tell two groups of unhappy people that the problem is the party in power, even if what you are selling is the opposite to those disaffected groups. People just want their complaints amplified and don't think past them.
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The struggle for Dems is that they truly are a big tent which is a good thing. But also leads to situations where two groups in the tent are at odds with each other. It’s walking a tight rope to show that you want to help both. The Dems are sincere about it which makes it hard going against someone who will throw whatever :poop: at the wall they can to make it stick to win an election. Knowing full well they have no intention of helping and fully intend to marginalize them.
 
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