American political violence — Is there an off-ramp?

Think about it, he actually has a point.

Many love to make the I'll die on this hill claims about certain topics.

Why do we have to die on any hill. Nothing is binary, so we should be able to find agreements and come to a consensus on disagreements that allow both to find some solace and not die.
 
1. Why not just replace the Supreme Court? Limit its jurisdiction to nothing, and create a new "inferior" court that will be the last word on all decisions and empowered by Congress to overturn Supreme Court decisions.

2. You can't sue Fox News for defamation every day. There needs to be criminal prohibition, or at least a civilly enforceable financial penalty imposed unconnected to damages.

3. We're going to need a new constitution. I mean, we needed a new constitution a decade and a half ago. But seeing as how almost none of it is functioning well, we need some structural changes.
We needed a new Constitution in 1865…….
 
The last available off-ramp, IMHO, is when Trump is no longer in office. And the GQP has to make the concessions because of the damage he is causing, as well as their right wing media networks.

But there is too much money to be made in hate. So that's not going to happen.

The youth are trending further left and further right than previous generations. It used to be the left just trended that way, but now we have the Christian Nationalists and the Groypers taking the extreme to the youth in the right wing. And it doesn't look like either side will bend.

The old people are brainwashed by Fox News and will never understand the politics they've allowed to fester due to them finding "real news." Centrists are checking out psychologically, because they serve no purpose anymore. They'll vote for whatever they see as the lesser of two evils, but the polarization of politics in this nation is broken, and will continue to break, until we can have a real, unifying presence.
 
I think the violence will continue to be sporadic, escalate perhaps, but for the near term I don't see how it leads to something coordinated.

The problem is no off-ramp for America authoritarianism, and that really started with Trump's "they're bringing crime, they're rapists" speech. This appealed to many tens of millions of White Americans, some that never had bothered to vote, stung and shocked by Obama, and that faction of hate is carved in granite now as a new and reliable voting block in this country for emergent Republican fascism. Democratic voters have been less enthusiastic to vote, for a myriad of small and ignorant reasons.

The other point, bigger figuratively and literally, is touched on by Zoo View above: the right wing billionaires who are content to use the votes of White racists/White Christians (the Venn overlap there being immense) to ever consolidate and advance their power, and in some part to simply enjoy--rather like the Romans at the Coliseum long ago--the little people rage around helplessly. It's a lot like kids killing ants with a magnifying glass, watch them struggle, suffer and burn. Musk is the best example of this, but there are so many others like him.
 
If there is new leadership that is willing to right the ship of state.
Anything is better than Trump. Him leaving the scene won't fix everything, but it will be an improvement. Vance would be a terrible president, but he'd be much, much better than Trump. Same with Rubio, Cruz, etc.

The only way I seeing it being as bad or worse after Trump is if somehow someone like Stephen Miller, Kash Patel, Kristi Noem, RFK, etc. won the presidency. But I don't see much chance of that happening.
 
I don't think anyone is as polarizing as Trump and that was true even before he won. He has a grip on the party and the country like no previous person has.
Stick with the party and fellow travelers. There has been little or no time that he was liked or respected by half the country. You can sell those lies to the true believers.
 
Stick with the party and fellow travelers. There has been little or no time that he was liked or respected by half the country. You can sell those lies to the true believers.
Polarizing doesn't mean "liked". He has captured the Republican party to a degree I've never seen AND he's captured the Democratic party, liberal media, etc like nobody I've ever seen.
 
Polarizing doesn't mean "liked". He has captured the Republican party to a degree I've never seen AND he's captured the Democratic party, liberal media, etc like nobody I've ever seen.
The Republican Party betrayed the country for power, religion and Trump. He's a charismatic front man but he's an idiot and senile The Republican Party is getting a lot of what they bought but they're having to ride the Trump tiger to do it. I hope he chews their ass off during the death throes of his administration.
 
Thought this was interesting:



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I like the discussion board format of social media because it is not intended as internal monologue, though some certainly seem to use it that way anyway. And I like the news aggregation in a discussion board as a sort of crowd-sourcing reactions that can help see different perspectives and critiques, but I acknowledge can also fall victiM to groupthink …
 
One thing I’ve been considering is whether the Kirk assassination might have a cooling effect on extreme left wing violence just as a practical matter — by demonstrating how counterproductive violent extremism can be.

I’ve been disturbed about how many people, especially young people, have seemed to support the murder of a health company executive by that Luigi guy. I think the support there actually bridges a left/right political divide, but certainly there seems to be a lot of celebratory response and building up Luigi as — not exactly a folk hero but a meme for revenge against an unjust system(?)

And while a lot of the responses to Kirk’s death that are being tagged by the right as “celebratory” when they are really a refusal to concede that Kirk was a good person or are saying that Kirk’s own rhetoric contributed to the general radicalization that led to his death, some of it has been outright celebratory. Which people have a First Amendment Right to engage in but is certainly unbecoming and seems similar to me to celebratory responses to the Luigi murder.

Probably just wishful thinking on my part, but I think it would be a good thing for people (especially young people who are statistically more prove to radical violence) to learn the lesson that aside from being morally wrong, political violence can be deeply counterproductive. That was NOT the lesson people seemed to take from the Luigi murder (in part because it wasn’t so much ‘political’ as societal), but maybe could be a lesson learned from the Kirk assassination.

keep calm dream on GIF
 
One thing I’ve been considering is whether the Kirk assassination might have a cooling effect on extreme left wing violence just as a practical matter — by demonstrating how counterproductive violent extremism can be.

I’ve been disturbed about how many people, especially young people, have seemed to support the murder of a health company executive by that Luigi guy. I think the support there actually bridges a left/right political divide, but certainly there seems to be a lot of celebratory response and building up Luigi as — not exactly a folk hero but a meme for revenge against an unjust system(?)
I think that's in large measure because young people have grown up in a world in which news is treated like a spectator sport. How many thought-out justifications did you see, as opposed to sort of generalized approval?

Young people naturally have trouble fully appreciating the real consequences of things they see but don't experience. Some of them grow out of it; some become MAGA. But it's even worse post social media.
 
Anything is better than Trump. Him leaving the scene won't fix everything, but it will be an improvement. Vance would be a terrible president, but he'd be much, much better than Trump. Same with Rubio, Cruz, etc.
I see no evidence that's the case, especially with Vance.
 
Listen to the podcast I linked on the podcast thread where the pod save America guys interview Heather Cox Richardson. She mentions some other times in history where she felt we were this divided and survived and reversed course.
The problem is NOT that we are divided.

The problem is that we are divided between fascists and non-fascists. I mean, you could have described Germany in 1930 as "divided." That wasn't really the problem.
 
One thing I’ve been considering is whether the Kirk assassination might have a cooling effect on extreme left wing violence just as a practical matter — by demonstrating how counterproductive violent extremism can be.

I’ve been disturbed about how many people, especially young people, have seemed to support the murder of a health company executive by that Luigi guy. I think the support there actually bridges a left/right political divide, but certainly there seems to be a lot of celebratory response and building up Luigi as — not exactly a folk hero but a meme for revenge against an unjust system(?)

And while a lot of the responses to Kirk’s death that are being tagged by the right as “celebratory” when they are really a refusal to concede that Kirk was a good person or are saying that Kirk’s own rhetoric contributed to the general radicalization that led to his death, some of it has been outright celebratory. Which people have a First Amendment Right to engage in but is certainly unbecoming and seems similar to me to celebratory responses to the Luigi murder.

Probably just wishful thinking on my part, but I think it would be a good thing for people (especially young people who are statistically more prove to radical violence) to learn the lesson that aside from being morally wrong, political violence can be deeply counterproductive. That was NOT the lesson people seemed to take from the Luigi murder (in part because it wasn’t so much ‘political’ as societal), but maybe could be a lesson learned from the Kirk assassination.

keep calm dream on GIF
That would be great, but I have a feeling the people who would do something like this, including Luigi, want nothing more than to trigger the type of hyperbolic meltdown we're seeing from the American Right.
 
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