We had $10k cash and basically 6 large suitcases. We set up/furnished a 3 bedroom apt, deposits, paperwork and fees, and traveled back and forth to the states a few times. After that it was $3k a month strict budget. No paycheck as we both retired early. My wife started getting SS 3 years later and we increased the budget to $4.5k/month, and increased it to 5k this year, but we are giving our daughter $1000 each month.
Anyone considering moving?
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Bigs23
Honored Member
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It’s not expensive to relocate in certain countries.
Plane tickets and moving stuff over are the main expenses and it’s not that much.
You can rent cheap outside of the city centers.
Once your there you’re living on the cheap.
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If I had the level of money they have, I would have already been moving around the world.
JCTarheel82
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Mind me asking what your housing costs? Sticking to a budget of $3k/month is impressive. That seems almost impossible in the States now unless you have roommates or live in the sticks.
ZenMode
Iconic Member
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For sure, but not because of an elected official, because I wanted to.
Not at all. Happy to answer questions.
As to any housing costs/real estate, as always, location is key. In most of Europe, next are size and amenities. Portugal is roughly the size of Indiana and population very similar to NC, but its average wage is roughly $1200 a month, so a budget of $3000 is more than the typical family here earns in the same period. The southern most part of Portugal is known as the Algarve or Gold Coast and home to some of the prettiest beaches in the world. This is where most retirees go (mainly British, but also Americans and other expats). It is also somewhat rural and only small towns, which helps a bit in the cost. However, I could not afford to live there, as it and Lisbon (largest city and capital) are beyond my budget. Also, a little too hot for our tastes. Next largest city is Porto, with a population of about 1.3 million and a wonderful city, but too hilly and we would be right at the top of our budget in living expenses. So we chose a city named Braga, which is a city in the upper north about an hour from the Spanish border, with a population of about 300k, and only 40 minutes to the international airport in Porto.
in 2018, when we moved there, we rented a fairly modern (for Portugal) 3 bedroom apartment with a garage and heat (not always included in a home) but unfurnished except for the kitchen, about 3/4´s of mile from the city center. Our cost, €475 a month, or roughly $550 at the time. In 2019, our landlord decided that they wanted to move back into the apartment after living in France for 10 years, so we moved to another building about 150 feet away. Pretty much the same size and amenities, but also had a central vac and better outside balconies. And it was mostly furnished with furniture. €480 or still about $550 at the time (the exchange rate was worse then).
In 2022, we decided that we wanted to be in Centro (the historic center) where all the action is, and we were tired of walking up a fairly significant hill to reach the city (no car). We found a modern 2 bedroom with a furnished but small kitchen and heat, but no garage, in the dead center of downtown for €750 to start and €803 to finish (this was the height of inflation and the government has a rent-control clause where the landlord can raise the rent by a government set figure each year - that year was the highest percentage in 20+ years).
This past July, we decided that we needed more room and also wanted air conditioning (even more rare here than heat) as the current apartment faced east/west and the summers are getting hotter. We now are in a 4 bedroom apartment with heat and air, the most American sized and style kitchen that we have had (European kitchens are SMALL), no garage, and are still in Centro and pay €1250 or $1300 at today´s exchange rate. Which is about a 1/3 of our current total budget.
For anyone interested in learning more about costs and what a budget can buy you anywhere in the world, I am going to suggest that you investigate two websites:
1. Numbeo.com compares actual costs between any two cities in the world. The numbers come direct personal entries and for the most part are fairly accurate in my experience. Here is the comparison of Greensboro, NC, where I moved from, to Braga, Portugal, where I live now:
2. Theearthawaits.com is a site that allows you to enter a budget of any amount, along with many other variables such as crime, air quality, walkability, health care, freedom, weather, and others into a matrix, and the site will them give you suggestions of possible places to live within your stated budget and other parameters. Here is the reading for Braga, Portugal:
The Earth Awaits - Braga, Portugal
Check out my cost of living in Braga, Portugal for a family of 2!
www.theearthawaits.com
I hope that answers your question, and if not, that I gave you sources to use to get your answer.
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Do you mean the Age of Exploration which then led to African slavery (which is what I am assuming that you are referring to), or the more recent history of dictatorship, which was overthrown 50 years ago in one of the most peaceful revolutions ever (only 5 killed) and so aptly named The Carnation Revolution and installed a democratic government that still exists today?
One was 5-6 hundred years ago and helped create the US (not saying that it is good, but we have a prominent place in that same aspect of history) and the other should be seen as a good thing and nothing to be concerned about. I have lived here for nearly 7 years, and other than a few adaptability problems (like clothes dryers) and language, have had no issues at all and love it here.
Paine
Iconic Member
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I’m talking about the country living under a fascist dictator more recently than like any other country. If this kind of stuff continues to rear its head, Europe is going to get worse before it gets better. So yes, the Carnation Revolution.
I understand that Portugal also has a much stronger left wing tradition than a lot of others places. My comments were more tongue in cheek than anything.
Centerpiece
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Indeed. I did it for 7 years. Had a blast. Wouldn't think twice about moving back. My friends in Switzerland now have a place near Valencia as well... they're saying "come on over!"
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Centerpiece
Iconic Member
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This is the area we are looking at. My wife is a retired Spanish teacher so she prefers Northern Spain, but I like Portugal. Our neighbor just walked the Camino and she dipped down into Porto and your area. She's looking at that spot too. She said there is loads of real estate, and houses for sale in Northern Spain all along the Camino - in the little villages. But I'm a jazz musician and I need to live somewhat close to a larger city so I can get into the nightlife and play my jams in the local pubs, clubs and coffeehouses. If Spain (to please the wife and to also take advantage or her language skills) I'm looking at a place near to cities like Santander, Bilbao, San Sabastiàn, Oviedo, Santiago de Compostela... perhaps a smaller village 20 or 30 minutes away from one of these cities. Like you, I don't want the heat of anyplace south of this area. We've visited all over Spain - Màlaga, Seville and Granada in the South - to Madrid and Barcelona, etc... Too hot for me...Not at all. Happy to answer questions.
As to any housing costs/real estate, as always, location is key. In most of Europe, next are size and amenities. Portugal is roughly the size of Indiana and population very similar to NC, but its average wage is roughly $1200 a month, so a budget of $3000 is more than the typical family here earns in the same period. The southern most part of Portugal is known as the Algarve or Gold Coast and home to some of the prettiest beaches in the world. This is where most retirees go (mainly British, but also Americans and other expats). It is also somewhat rural and only small towns, which helps a bit in the cost. However, I could not afford to live there, as it and Lisbon (largest city and capital) are beyond my budget. Also, a little too hot for our tastes. Next largest city is Porto, with a population of about 1.3 million and a wonderful city, but too hilly and we would be right at the top of our budget in living expenses. So we chose a city named Braga, which is a city in the upper north about an hour from the Spanish border, with a population of about 300k, and only 40 minutes to the international airport in Porto.
in 2018, when we moved there, we rented a fairly modern (for Portugal) 3 bedroom apartment with a garage and heat (not always included in a home) but unfurnished except for the kitchen, about 3/4´s of mile from the city center. Our cost, €475 a month, or roughly $550 at the time. In 2019, our landlord decided that they wanted to move back into the apartment after living in France for 10 years, so we moved to another building about 150 feet away. Pretty much the same size and amenities, but also had a central vac and better outside balconies. And it was mostly furnished with furniture. €480 or still about $550 at the time (the exchange rate was worse then).
In 2022, we decided that we wanted to be in Centro (the historic center) where all the action is, and we were tired of walking up a fairly significant hill to reach the city (no car). We found a modern 2 bedroom with a furnished but small kitchen and heat, but no garage, in the dead center of downtown for €750 to start and €803 to finish (this was the height of inflation and the government has a rent-control clause where the landlord can raise the rent by a government set figure each year - that year was the highest percentage in 20+ years).
This past July, we decided that we needed more room and also wanted air conditioning (even more rare here than heat) as the current apartment faced east/west and the summers are getting hotter. We now are in a 4 bedroom apartment with heat and air, the most American sized and style kitchen that we have had (European kitchens are SMALL), no garage, and are still in Centro and pay €1250 or $1300 at today´s exchange rate. Which is about a 1/3 of our current total budget.
For anyone interested in learning more about costs and what a budget can buy you anywhere in the world, I am going to suggest that you investigate two websites:
1. Numbeo.com compares actual costs between any two cities in the world. The numbers come direct personal entries and for the most part are fairly accurate in my experience. Here is the comparison of Greensboro, NC, where I moved from, to Braga, Portugal, where I live now:
2. Theearthawaits.com is a site that allows you to enter a budget of any amount, along with many other variables such as crime, air quality, walkability, health care, freedom, weather, and others into a matrix, and the site will them give you suggestions of possible places to live within your stated budget and other parameters. Here is the reading for Braga, Portugal:
The budget given of $3200 a month is for what they call an ample lifestyle, which is what I put as us as we like to travel. The lifestyle is another variable that you can chose. BTW, the 4th picture shown, the building with all the purple-bluish tile, is about 250 feet from my apartment and a stunning viewpoint from our balcony and all of the pictures are within a quarter-mile of our home.The Earth Awaits - Braga, Portugal
Check out my cost of living in Braga, Portugal for a family of 2!
I hope that answers your question, and if not, that I gave you sources to use to get your answer.
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Completely agree.
I'm an American, I'm not running away from politics.
I just want to see more of the world than I have at this point.
Centerpiece
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Thanks, will check it out.
Since the game is not worth wasting my time on anymore, I figured I would answer you now, lol. We have good friends that live right on the border at Caminha at the junction of the Minho River and the Atlantic Ocean. Small town and last train station in northern Portugal, but very nice and considered one of the new hot spots for expats. My wife and I love Valença (a wonderful walled city) and Tui (Spain) which is directly across the river. Also Vigo, in Spain is a nice coastal city, but a little hilly. As a side story, we met the world record holder of most kms walked on caminos (there are quite a few trails) while we were in Valença. A charming old Portuguese man that spent about 40 minutes just chatting with us. And very proud to show us his press clippings. He is an icon on the routes and well known by the locals.
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JCTarheel82
Honored Member
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- 831
Appreciate the info. Thanks for sharing.Not at all. Happy to answer questions.
As to any housing costs/real estate, as always, location is key. In most of Europe, next are size and amenities. Portugal is roughly the size of Indiana and population very similar to NC, but its average wage is roughly $1200 a month, so a budget of $3000 is more than the typical family here earns in the same period. The southern most part of Portugal is known as the Algarve or Gold Coast and home to some of the prettiest beaches in the world. This is where most retirees go (mainly British, but also Americans and other expats). It is also somewhat rural and only small towns, which helps a bit in the cost. However, I could not afford to live there, as it and Lisbon (largest city and capital) are beyond my budget. Also, a little too hot for our tastes. Next largest city is Porto, with a population of about 1.3 million and a wonderful city, but too hilly and we would be right at the top of our budget in living expenses. So we chose a city named Braga, which is a city in the upper north about an hour from the Spanish border, with a population of about 300k, and only 40 minutes to the international airport in Porto.
in 2018, when we moved there, we rented a fairly modern (for Portugal) 3 bedroom apartment with a garage and heat (not always included in a home) but unfurnished except for the kitchen, about 3/4´s of mile from the city center. Our cost, €475 a month, or roughly $550 at the time. In 2019, our landlord decided that they wanted to move back into the apartment after living in France for 10 years, so we moved to another building about 150 feet away. Pretty much the same size and amenities, but also had a central vac and better outside balconies. And it was mostly furnished with furniture. €480 or still about $550 at the time (the exchange rate was worse then).
In 2022, we decided that we wanted to be in Centro (the historic center) where all the action is, and we were tired of walking up a fairly significant hill to reach the city (no car). We found a modern 2 bedroom with a furnished but small kitchen and heat, but no garage, in the dead center of downtown for €750 to start and €803 to finish (this was the height of inflation and the government has a rent-control clause where the landlord can raise the rent by a government set figure each year - that year was the highest percentage in 20+ years).
This past July, we decided that we needed more room and also wanted air conditioning (even more rare here than heat) as the current apartment faced east/west and the summers are getting hotter. We now are in a 4 bedroom apartment with heat and air, the most American sized and style kitchen that we have had (European kitchens are SMALL), no garage, and are still in Centro and pay €1250 or $1300 at today´s exchange rate. Which is about a 1/3 of our current total budget.
For anyone interested in learning more about costs and what a budget can buy you anywhere in the world, I am going to suggest that you investigate two websites:
1. Numbeo.com compares actual costs between any two cities in the world. The numbers come direct personal entries and for the most part are fairly accurate in my experience. Here is the comparison of Greensboro, NC, where I moved from, to Braga, Portugal, where I live now:
2. Theearthawaits.com is a site that allows you to enter a budget of any amount, along with many other variables such as crime, air quality, walkability, health care, freedom, weather, and others into a matrix, and the site will them give you suggestions of possible places to live within your stated budget and other parameters. Here is the reading for Braga, Portugal:
The budget given of $3200 a month is for what they call an ample lifestyle, which is what I put as us as we like to travel. The lifestyle is another variable that you can chose. BTW, the 4th picture shown, the building with all the purple-bluish tile, is about 250 feet from my apartment and a stunning viewpoint from our balcony and all of the pictures are within a quarter-mile of our home.The Earth Awaits - Braga, Portugal
Check out my cost of living in Braga, Portugal for a family of 2!
I hope that answers your question, and if not, that I gave you sources to use to get your answer.
- Messages
- 2,387
How does Healthcare factor in?Not at all. Happy to answer questions.
As to any housing costs/real estate, as always, location is key. In most of Europe, next are size and amenities. Portugal is roughly the size of Indiana and population very similar to NC, but its average wage is roughly $1200 a month, so a budget of $3000 is more than the typical family here earns in the same period. The southern most part of Portugal is known as the Algarve or Gold Coast and home to some of the prettiest beaches in the world. This is where most retirees go (mainly British, but also Americans and other expats). It is also somewhat rural and only small towns, which helps a bit in the cost. However, I could not afford to live there, as it and Lisbon (largest city and capital) are beyond my budget. Also, a little too hot for our tastes. Next largest city is Porto, with a population of about 1.3 million and a wonderful city, but too hilly and we would be right at the top of our budget in living expenses. So we chose a city named Braga, which is a city in the upper north about an hour from the Spanish border, with a population of about 300k, and only 40 minutes to the international airport in Porto.
in 2018, when we moved there, we rented a fairly modern (for Portugal) 3 bedroom apartment with a garage and heat (not always included in a home) but unfurnished except for the kitchen, about 3/4´s of mile from the city center. Our cost, €475 a month, or roughly $550 at the time. In 2019, our landlord decided that they wanted to move back into the apartment after living in France for 10 years, so we moved to another building about 150 feet away. Pretty much the same size and amenities, but also had a central vac and better outside balconies. And it was mostly furnished with furniture. €480 or still about $550 at the time (the exchange rate was worse then).
In 2022, we decided that we wanted to be in Centro (the historic center) where all the action is, and we were tired of walking up a fairly significant hill to reach the city (no car). We found a modern 2 bedroom with a furnished but small kitchen and heat, but no garage, in the dead center of downtown for €750 to start and €803 to finish (this was the height of inflation and the government has a rent-control clause where the landlord can raise the rent by a government set figure each year - that year was the highest percentage in 20+ years).
This past July, we decided that we needed more room and also wanted air conditioning (even more rare here than heat) as the current apartment faced east/west and the summers are getting hotter. We now are in a 4 bedroom apartment with heat and air, the most American sized and style kitchen that we have had (European kitchens are SMALL), no garage, and are still in Centro and pay €1250 or $1300 at today´s exchange rate. Which is about a 1/3 of our current total budget.
For anyone interested in learning more about costs and what a budget can buy you anywhere in the world, I am going to suggest that you investigate two websites:
1. Numbeo.com compares actual costs between any two cities in the world. The numbers come direct personal entries and for the most part are fairly accurate in my experience. Here is the comparison of Greensboro, NC, where I moved from, to Braga, Portugal, where I live now:
2. Theearthawaits.com is a site that allows you to enter a budget of any amount, along with many other variables such as crime, air quality, walkability, health care, freedom, weather, and others into a matrix, and the site will them give you suggestions of possible places to live within your stated budget and other parameters. Here is the reading for Braga, Portugal:
The budget given of $3200 a month is for what they call an ample lifestyle, which is what I put as us as we like to travel. The lifestyle is another variable that you can chose. BTW, the 4th picture shown, the building with all the purple-bluish tile, is about 250 feet from my apartment and a stunning viewpoint from our balcony and all of the pictures are within a quarter-mile of our home.The Earth Awaits - Braga, Portugal
Check out my cost of living in Braga, Portugal for a family of 2!
I hope that answers your question, and if not, that I gave you sources to use to get your answer.
Bigs23
Honored Member
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- 957
From what I’ve read you get access to their inexpensive public healthcare and can upgrade at a very reasonable cost.
Turd Ferguson
Distinguished Member
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- 344
I considered moving on up to the east side to a deluxe apartment in the sky.
I will give both a broad answer and personal one. And I apologize in advance, but this will be lengthy.
As a visitor, up to 90 days, you can stay in the EU/Portugal with no visa and insurance is not required. If you are injured or need medical attention, it will be provided to you by the NHS, or National Health System, at cost, which is typically 10-50% of the price in the States. Like nearly every other modern country in the world, Portugal has socialized health care and is actually ranked much higher than the US in quality (our experiences differ slightly). But, unless it is an emergency, there can be significant wait time. But there are many private hospitals and healthcare centers that you can pay for, and get quicker service, but at a cost of about 20% more (still under US prices). If you have a US prescription from a doctor, it can most likely be filled just by going to the pharmacy directly, and the pharmacists can do their own prescriptions for almost anything not a controlled substance, meaning most antibiotics, E.D., and mental health drugs are walkin and filled directly with no prescription. And most prices are well below similar drugs in the US. A prescription from a doctor does give a controlled government price which can be up to 30% less. However, OTC drugs in the US, like aspirin, Tylenol, and Ibuprofen, can only be gotten in a pharmacy or a rare drug store. You will not find them in the grocery store or anywhere else. And the largest quantity is usually 20 pills or most times just 10. And they are expensive compared to US prices. A 10 count package of Ibuprofen is about $3. We mule these back from the States on each visit.
Over 90 days, you must be working towards residency and obtain a longer stay Visa. A basic requirement is to prove that you won´t be a burden on the government, which means you must have proof of income (about $1200 a month currently), a place to live (lease, contract, or title), and health insurance. The easist is just to Goggle expat insurance and do your own research. If you are staying and have already obtained a NIF (kinda like a SS# number but only used for ID and taxes, there is a separate SS# here), then I would suggest local companies. And insurance is sold nearly EVERYWHERE. If you are younger and basically will be using the insurance for checkups and injury, then you can buy ACA (Obamacare) like insurance from your local bank, grocery store, utility company, and others! Cost is about $25-$35 monthly per person. There are also Hospital chains that sell their own insurance only usable in their chains. I will talk more about that in my personal section. Cost is about $20/m/pp If you are older, then are private insurance companies that can provide more significant insurance covering sickness and other necessities. Be warned though, that many policies expire once you hit 70 (legal in Portugal) so be sure to check if your does or not. Similar to the US, cost varies on many factors, and lie about pre-exisiting conditions if you can, because most are not covered.
Once you have obtained some type of residency, you are then eligible for the NHS and obtain a Utente number. You will be assigned a General Practioner and consultations with them are free, but appointments must be scheduled in advance and can be months out at times. Also, you can be assigned a GP in a neighboring town. Ours is 12 miles from our home and we don´t have a car. The bus can get us within a mile but the remaining walk is along a narrow and busy road with portions not having any sidewalk. We can Uber, but it is about $30 r/t. So we have only been there once. We have two different private hospitals within a quarter of a mile of our apartment and we just use those. There are private health centers too that many people use but we don´t have any experience with them. Emergency situations are handled promptly in a hospital. Most things in the NHS are fully covered so there is no expenditure once you get the Utente. I know many elderly that use the NHS exclusively and are very happy with their healthcare.
Now to more personal experiences. Our first year, we just paid for expat insurance and never even used it. There are two large private hospital chains and both were extremely close to our home. You can get a GP at a private hospital and visits to them cost about $40. The first dental exam, including X-ray, is typically free. At private locations appointments can usually be gotten within one or two days and many times we have gotten same day. We bought the chain insurance at $20 pp/m and some of the benefits included are 10 GP visits discounted to $17.50 each, and significant discounts on most procedures (I got a colonoscopy for $60 before I started using NHS). So it was ridiculous for us to use the NHS GP that was 12 miles away and would cost more (because of travel and/or hassle) than the one right down the street from us. We also bought an encompassing policy that covers us for bigger issues, and is good worldwide, including $50k in the US. I am 61 and my wife is 65. I am in good health but my wife has some health issues. Our insurance policy is about $250 per month total for both of us. So both plans together (chain and private company) for both of us is roughly $300 per month.
Experiences on getting health care. First off, every pharmacy that I have been in, both in my hometown and throughout Portugal, has at least one person within that speaks English well. Portugal´s economy is 20% tourism and most come from the UK. Never had any issues. As to doctor´s and nurses, it has been a mixed bag. Never a serious problem, but there have been occasions were we were assigned a specialist that didn´t speak English and a hunt would have to be made to find someone that did. We try to do most things online, and some doctor profiles do tell the languages they speak. Again, not a serious problem, but it has made for an occasional bump in the process.
NHS: Again, we don´t use our assigned GP, so I can´t speak of any experiences there. Once you are in the system, routine things become automated. I have a pre-scheduled colonoscopy every 5 years, next one is next year. Free. My wife´s mammogram, prescheduled and free. We got our Covid and flu vaccines prescheduled and free. There is a local NHS Hospital that we use for these and other similar items. We receive emails and texts for reminders.
Private: I can only speak for the chain that we use, but for the most part, the process has been outstanding. Again, most appointments can be gotten very quickly. Other than routine stuff, I personally really haven´t had to use the healthcare system. But my wife has had many processes done, including broken clavicle surgery, cataracts and Lasik, and a few others. Quality comparable or better than the US. Other than a mobility issue that comes and goes that the issue can´t be determined yet, we have had no complaints. The clavicle surgery that put a 7 inch titanium plate in her shoulder and included two nights in the hospital and many followup visits cost roughly $5500 before insurance and about $2500 after. The PT was $16.50 per visit before insurance and fully covered after. We know many people that just use NHS and their credit card is their insurance policy due to the much lower healthcare costs. But their budget is higher than ours, lol.
I want to add a few things about health. Because we live inner city, and don´t have a car, we walk most everywhere. Most preservatives are banned in the EU, so nearly everything is fresh. Other than a rainy winter season, there is sun most every day, so we do a lot more outside activities than we did in the states. It´s difficult to explain if you haven´t been, but Europe is different than the US in pace of life. There is a lot less stress here. No guns, so almost no chance of violent crime. We walk around at 2am in what looks like sketchy areas with no fear AT ALL. We are retired, so time is not an issue. The most stress inducing factor here is the bureaucracy. If you think it´s bad in the US, Portugl says "Hold my beer." Other than that, everything is chill. I feel much healthier here than I did in the US because of the lifestyle here.
Hope this helps and feel free to ask more about anything other than getting g a Visa. The process has changed at least twice since I went through it, and falls under a completely different government entity than the one I used.
Edited to add - Many doctors work both NHS and privately. We have seen the same doctors under both systems. And many times, under NHS they will tell you to go to a private doctor for a test and bring it back. My wife had a test that would be scheduled 11 months out under NHS, but we got the the same test done the next week privately and just brought the results back.
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