Biden pardons | BIDEN ISSUES PREEMPTIVE PARDONS - Family, Fauci, J6 Committee, Others

[hedge]

Semantics!

 

[Calheel]

So Biden asked himself, as i do from time to time, What Woukd Dean Smith Do?

Biden gives life in prison to 37 of 40 federal death row inmates before Trump can resume executions

The move spares the lives of people convicted in killings, including the slayings of police and military officers, people on federal land and those involved in deadly bank robberies or drug deals.

apnews.com

Dean would have commuted 40 out of 40. Of course, Dean never could have won office because he held so many political unpopular beliefs and he was not the type of person to compromise his principles.

 

[superrific]

There is no logic to it. He hasn't led an effort to repeal the DP in federal cases. Its completely random and not likely his doing. The office of potus is being completely run by appointees which is completely anti-democratic. F the families. F the law (remember how the left was all about the rule of law until it wasn't). F democracy (remember how the left was all about democracy until it wasn't). That is the biden administration. Not saying that is your opinion, just how its playing out. So when trump does similar things, and he will, this board shouldn't be all up in arms, but it certainly will.

preemptive bothsiding should be a federal offense. good lord you have no self-respect at all.

nobody is giving a middle finger here. this has nothing to do with the families (they have no stake in the outcome). this is perfectly legal. it is in fact what the commutation power is designed for. and this especially has nothing to do with democracy.

did you watch the unc-ucla game? you saw that unc made a 16 point run? do you know how many timeouts were called in that stretch? i'll let you guess. they did nothing to stop the unc run. since you cannot even understand timeouts, nor admit that you were wrong about them, why should anyone believe your analysis about anything?

 

[superrific]

Dean would have commuted 40 out of 40. Of course, Dean never could have won office because he held so many political unpopular beliefs and he was not the type of person to compromise his principles.

i doubt it. he would have done the same. its easy to talk a big game about no death penalty ever, until you have to sign the commutation papers for a man who walked into a synagogue with assault rifles and started killing everyone wantonly because they were jewish.

if the us had captured, tried and convicted osama bin laden, and he was on death row, there is nobody anywhere who would sign his commutation papers. jesus himself could come down and say, death penalty is wrong but put this guy on a gurney.

 

[Calheel]

preemptive bothsiding should be a federal offense. good lord you have no self-respect at all.

nobody is giving a middle finger here. this has nothing to do with the families (they have no stake in the outcome). this is perfectly legal. it is in fact what the commutation power is designed for. and this especially has nothing to do with democracy.

did you watch the unc-ucla game? you saw that unc made a 16 point run? do you know how many timeouts were called in that stretch? i'll let you guess. they did nothing to stop the unc run. since you cannot even understand timeouts, nor admit that you were wrong about them, why should anyone believe your analysis about anything?

The families have no stake in the outcome? Surely you don't mean that.

There is a reason families are allowed to speak before sentencing. Victims have long been given special status in criminal justice proceedings.

Any pardon/commutation should consider the impact those actions will have on the victims.

 

[superrific]

The families have no stake in the outcome? Surely you don't mean that.

There is a reason families are allowed to speak before sentencing. Victims have long been given special status in criminal justice proceedings.

Any pardon/commutation should consider the impact those actions will have on the victims.

victims have been given justice. pardons/commutations are about mercy. the victims have no standing to demand a say in that. no person has moral standing to insist that another person not act mercifully toward another, unless it affects them and this doesn't. it would be different if this was a pardon-to-release.

 

[hedge]

The quality of mercy is not strained;
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown...

 

[ChileG]

Clearly he

To clarify, my dictionary comment was specifically related to Yosef conflating "baby" and "fetus." If you don't know the difference definitonally between those two words then you should probably sit out any discussions around abortion.

As well, it isn’t exactly a stretch to argue that the state has an interest in both keeping abortion legal and outlawing the death penalty.

 

[Ramrouser]

This is madness. Seems like a cabal of leftist staffers orchestrated this. Certainly not Biden. I can’t believe we have to endure another three weeks of this. Charlie Kirk predicts “Biden” will issue a blanket pardon for all illegal aliens before it’s all said and done.

 

[Calheel]

victims have been given justice. pardons/commutations are about mercy. the victims have no say in that. no person has moral standing to insist that another person not act mercifully toward another, unless it affects them and it doesn't. it would be different if this was a pardon-to-release.

Why do victims of crime sometimes petition governors and presidents for commutations/pardons and why do governors and presidents cite such comments in their commutation statements?

If the victims have no say in the “mercy” process then there should be no reason for their involvement.

 

[Calheel]

i doubt it. he would have done the same. its easy to talk a big game about no death penalty ever, until you have to sign the commutation papers for a man who walked into a synagogue with assault rifles and started killing everyone wantonly because they were jewish.

if the us had captured, tried and convicted osama bin laden, and he was on death row, there is nobody anywhere who would sign his commutation papers. jesus himself could come down and say, death penalty is wrong but put this guy on a gurney.

Then you don’t understand Dean. He was morally opposed to the death penalty in all situations, not just some.

Like many highly religious people, he thought it was wrong for man to assume god’s justice. He absolutely would have commuted all the sentences and done it on day 1 of his administration. Just one of the many reasons Dean never would have been elected.

 

[finesse]

Why do victims of crime sometimes petition governors and presidents for commutations/pardons and why do governors and presidents cite such comments in their commutation statements?

If the victims have no say in the “mercy” process then there should be no reason for their involvement.

I don't think those are equivalents. If nothing else, I suspect that the families of the victims are contacted about the pardon being in the process while the families of the victims are involved in seeking the pardon before the government begins the process. If you swing that way, you can say an act of forgiveness is more powerful than clinging to vengeance.

 

[Calheel]

I don't think those are equivalents. If nothing else, I suspect that the families of the victims are contacted about the pardon being in the process while the families of the victims are involved in seeking the pardon before the government begins the process. If you swing that way, you can say an act of forgiveness is more powerful than clinging to vengeance.

I personally think the death penalty is stupid and excessively costly, not to mention all the other moral and ethical and cultural problems with it. I spent one of my summers in law school working for the North Carolina Resource Center and got very involved in the death penalty habeas process. It is just an absurd system we have.

That said, if you are going to consider victims (or technically, victims' families in the case of murder) when they are pro-commutation, you have set the precedent for hearing them out when they are anti-commutation (or at the very least, considering the impact your actions will have on that group of people). Of course, that does not give victims a veto right on these kind of things, just a voice at the table to be considered -- amongst many other voices.

Super said victims should be afforded no weight in these decisions. I can't buy that kind of absolutism, and I don't think Biden would either -- which is why his statement reiterated how terrible the crimes were.

 

[bridgetender]

This is madness. Seems like a cabal of leftist staffers orchestrated this. Certainly not Biden. I can’t believe we have to endure another three weeks of this. Charlie Kirk predicts “Biden” will issue a blanket pardon for all illegal aliens before it’s all said and done.

 

[superrific]

Why do victims of crime sometimes petition governors and presidents for commutations/pardons and why do governors and presidents cite such comments in their commutation statements?

If the victims have no say in the “mercy” process then there should be no reason for their involvement.

every governor or president can do mercy however they want. if a guv wants to ask victims' families, that's his or her right. but there is no principle that mandates giving them any say. its a matter between the convicted and the state. nobody else has any right to be involved. that they sometimes are doesn't change that.

 

[superrific]

Super said victims should be afforded no weight in these decisions.

i didn't say that exactly. i said they don't have any right, legal or moral, to be involved. i don't have much of an opinion on this, so i dont' know what i would do in bidens' position, meaning i have no opinion on the "should" part.

 

[superrific]

Then you don’t understand Dean. He was morally opposed to the death penalty in all situations, not just some.

Like many highly religious people, he thought it was wrong for man to assume god’s justice. He absolutely would have commuted all the sentences and done it on day 1 of his administration. Just one of the many reasons Dean never would have been elected.

i understand dean's position. ive met lots of people who say they are morally opposed to the death penalty in all situations. its easy to say. its another thing to have a commutation paper in front of you for a guy who shot up a church because he hates black people, or a synagogue because he hates jews -- and sign it.
i strongly believe that people like to think of themselves as braver than they are. if you haven't been tested, you don't know what you would do. I would think that, had I been at my lai, i would have tried to do something to stop it. but i dont know that. and while its possible that everyone there was a sadistic murderer, i think its more likely that some of the soldiers knew it was wrong but didn't have the guts to speak out. that sounds insulting, right? it just shows how much we live in our own armchair qb minds. it would have taken a lot of guts to try to stop my lai. are you sure you have that level of guts?

are you sure dean would have the guts to commute the sentence of a terrorist? are you sure he wouldn't sign 37 of the 40 and call it a good job?

 

[evrheel]

Because nobody has a fetus. By the time it’s born it is a baby, but when abortions occur it’s still a fetus (or an embryo). Nobody says they are having a sperm and egg either, but that’s step one of the process.

And since over turning ROE v Wade abortions are on the rise

 

[WaynetheDrain]

This is madness. Seems like a cabal of leftist staffers orchestrated this. Certainly not Biden. I can’t believe we have to endure another three weeks of this. Charlie Kirk predicts “Biden” will issue a blanket pardon for all illegal aliens before it’s all said and done.

It’s not madness. It’s humane. Biden is against the death penalty. Note that I said Biden is against the death penalty, not against judicial punishment and the rule of law.

These people pose no greater threat to the public now than they did when they were sitting on death row.

Personally, I think he didn’t go far enough. I think he should have pardoned all 37 people, commuting their sentences entirely, and thrown them on two buses: One to Ron DeSantis’ house and one to Jim Abott’s house. Just to replace the workers both states lost bussing asylum seekers to sanctuary states.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

This is madness. Seems like a cabal of leftist staffers orchestrated this. Certainly not Biden. I can’t believe we have to endure another three weeks of this. Charlie Kirk predicts “Biden” will issue a blanket pardon for all illegal aliens before it’s all said and done.

Charlie Kirk, always an accurate bellwether for … almost nothing ever.