Biorhythms for Carolina @SMU: 2:15 Start on CW

Mulberry Heel said:
I've said this before, but Coach Smith went eight seasons, 1983-1990, without making a single Final Four despite having some top-rated teams and top-rated recruiting classes. They didn't win a single ACC tournament from 1983 through 1988 back when that still meant something. I remember reading some snarky articles in sports magazines and newspapers when UNC failed to make a Final Four in some years, and there was some talk about how the game "had passed him by" and so on. Had the internet existed back then I can only cringe at what some message board posters would have said about Coach Smith - no doubt they would have wanted him to be fired ("all that talent and he can't get it done - look at what Coach K is doing over in Durham, or Bobby Cremins down at Georgia Tech! We need to get ourselves a younger, more dynamic, up-and-coming coach!").
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Pretty sure Howard Ward at Fayetteville observer wrote column he should retire. I worked with Howard a few years and even hired him to write columns for me but that was dumb.
 
Peppers49 said:
As I said I’m on team let the season play out, but I’m sure the fan bases of some of those examples you listed are also absolutely talking about hot seats lol.
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Don't be like those fans. 😉

I'm not sure that coach Davis is the absolute best coach in the world, but he's only been a head coach for 4 1/2 years, the team is 13-2 and a lot of fun to watch. They're all learning and improving, they beat Kansas and Kentucky and several other teams, and they're going to win more big games against some really good teams this season. I'm going to enjoy the ride. To paraphrase HOF (and scumbag) Rick Pitino, "Dean Smith and Roy Williams are not walking through that door."
 
For Coach McGuire through Coach Williams we had Carolina, THE University of North Carolina, a top-rated academic school in an archetypal college town with an idyllic campus -- each of those coaches had something other than money to lay out for a particular type of young player. Those sorts of things don't matter anymore because the ONLY issue today is money. Yeah, smart players are also cognizant of the extra exposure that winning can bring...especially runs through March into April and the concomitant pay-out that promises, but the good players, not even the just great players, but ones like Jaron Pierre Jr. or Robert MacRay III or Jordan Riley are no longer thinking about degrees or majors or post-college careers -- they're thinking about how much money they can get while playing college basketball and how much they can parlay that into past their, hopefully, five year earnings at that level.

So the worlds in which McGuire, Coach Smith, Coach Gut, and Coach Williams coached and recruited were nothing like the world, almost utterly uncharted, that Coach Davis has in front of him. Now maybe he is stuck in the past and believes that there are enough good players left on earth that want to come to the University of North Carolina not just MONEY U. That he has brought Harrison Ingram, Brady Manek, Cormac Ryan, Henri Veesaar, Elliott Cadeau, Ian Jackson, and Drake Powell to Carolina -- just to name seven of which five strike me as the type of young men that Coach Smith or Coach Williams would also recruit and land, says to me that Coach Davis stands by his alma mater as an elite institution across the board, in more ways than only athletics.

I realize that there are those who scoff at The Carolina Way, suggest that it never even existed, or that it was a shell game -- and there are people for whom the university itself matters not one whit -- there are even Carolina fans that admire and wish we were more like some other schools but I'm not one of those people.
 
BillOfRights said:
Rational, sure.

If I wanted knee-jerk overreaction, I can find that at IC or Facebook.

I consider you rational and intelligent. I get the disappointment of today's loss, but some 18-22 year old kids lost a basketball game to a good team and a good coach at their place. It happens. Coach Smith said not to treat each game as life or death. For one, you'll be dead a lot.

Everyone handles things differently. I'm going to celebrate the wins, try not to dwell on the losses, and enjoy this season of Carolina basketball. I managed to survive 1984 with Jordan, Perkins, Daugherty, and Kenny Smith losing to Bob Knight and Dan Jockitch and have gone on to a reasonably meaningful life without speculating about firing Coach Dean Smith because that team failed to live up to my expectations.
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It's not about firing Hubert because the team doesn't live up to my expectations. I haven't liked the offense he uses from the start. I think it is too easy to defend by good teams and does not give the Heels the best chance at getting the best possible shots, therefore not giving them the best possible chance to win. The switching on defense is also an issue when you don't have the players that can defend mismatches. I also don't see any adjustments during the game or even any adjustments going into a game based on the opponent. The gameplan is always the same no matter who they play. I see other teams doing things to try to maximize their chance to win against UNC. Like today, the SMU coach had a gameplan for Wilson and Veesaar. They had a gameplan on offense because they knew the Carolina guards could not hang with their guards, and the switching on defense just led to even bigger mismatches. I just don't think Hubert's style of play gives the team he has the best possible chance of winning, and he does nothing to adjust for the team he has and the opponent.
 
CarolinaFever said:
It's not about firing Hubert because the team doesn't live up to my expectations. I haven't liked the offense he uses from the start. I think it is too easy to defend by good teams and doesnot give the Heels the best chance at getting the best possible shots, therefore not giving them the best possible chance to win. The switching on defense is also an issue when you don't have the players that can defend mismatches. I also don't see any adjustments during the game or even any adjustments going I to a game based on the opponent. The gameplay is always the same no matter who they play. I see other teams doing things to try to maximize their chance to win against UNC. Like today, the SMU coach had a gameplan for Wilson and Veesaar. They had a gameplay on offense because they knew the Carolina guards could not hang with their guards, and the switching on defense just led to even bigger mismatches. I just don't think Hubert's style of play gives the team he had the best possible chance of winning, and he does nothing to adjust for the team he has and the opponent.
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You keep saying the same thing. So you think you know more basketball than Hubert, lebo, may, Frederick, who all learned under dean and roy. I think you are wrong and if you and the coaches were to debate the why's etc. They would undress you. But keep saying the same thing. Incredibly profound.
 
CarolinaFever said:
It's not about firing Hubert because the team doesn't live up to my expectations. I haven't liked the offense he uses from the start. I think it is too easy to defend by good teams and does not give the Heels the best chance at getting the best possible shots, therefore not giving them the best possible chance to win. The switching on defense is also an issue when you don't have the players that can defend mismatches. I also don't see any adjustments during the game or even any adjustments going into a game based on the opponent. The gameplan is always the same no matter who they play. I see other teams doing things to try to maximize their chance to win against UNC. Like today, the SMU coach had a gameplan for Wilson and Veesaar. They had a gameplan on offense because they knew the Carolina guards could not hang with their guards, and the switching on defense just led to even bigger mismatches. I just don't think Hubert's style of play gives the team he has the best possible chance of winning, and he does nothing to adjust for the team he has and the opponent.
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My opinion differs. The game has changed.
 
heel79 said:
You keep saying the same thing. So you think you know more basketball than Hubert, lebo, may, Frederick, who all learned under dean and roy. I think you are wrong and if you and the coaches were to debate the why's etc. They would undress you. But keep saying the same thing. Incredibly profound.
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I grew up watching Dean and Roy. I studied what they did because I love the game. I played the game all my life. I always thought I screwed up and made the wrong decision with my life by not going into education so I could coach basketball. You have no idea what I know. Also, former players have said the same thing about the offense and defense. It's not just me.
 
CarolinaFever said:
I grew up watching Dean and Roy. I studied what they did because I love the game. I played the game all my life. I always thought I screwed up and made the wrong decision with my life by not going into education so I could coach basketball. You have no idea what I know. Also, former players have said the same thing about the offense and defense. It's not just me.
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I am sure you think you would have been a great coach. I think one of your great coaching decisions was not becoming one. I am sure studying dean and roy is greater than playing for and coaching with them.
 
heel79 said:
I am sure you think you would have been a great coach. I think one of your great coaching decisions was not becoming one. I am sure studying dean and roy is greater than playing for and coaching with them.
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Unless you are also a college coach then your opinion is just as worthless as his lol.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
This was debated endlessly at the end of last season and the general consensus here seemed to be a Top 10 finish this season, a Top 3 finish in the ACC and a deep run (Sweet 16 bare minimum, Elite Eight/Final Four better) or he was likely out at the end of the year. What I'm at least as interested to hear is what replacement coach those who want him gone have lined up. There is no guaranteed Roy Williams type out there, and given how much we're already paying Belichick and his staff I'm wondering where the big bucks would come from to line up a big name coach who is likely to succeed right away.

And while I've been a Davis supporter, I'm not saying that we shouldn't fire him if things go south this season, only that replacing him with a "guaranteed proven winner" is likely going to be much harder this time around than it was when we fired Doherty.
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There's no such thing as a "guaranteed proven winner" coming in because you can't predict the future. The best possible way to ensure you're going to get the best coach is to do an actual search and hire the person you think is best for the program. When HD is no longer coach, that is what I hope they do.
 
heel79 said:
Except my only opinion is the same as you just expressed. Coaches know more than I do. I agree. CF thinks he knows more than the coaches.
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Just because he disagrees with a particular tactic that a coach is using doesn’t mean that he’s claiming he knows more about the sport than the coach. That should be pretty self explanatory.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
I think one thing many fan bases (especially blue blood fan bases) are having a hard time adjusting to - including our own - is that in this new NIL, easy-transfer era of college basketball the kind of consistent year-in-year-out success that existed in the past are likely a thing of the past. In the old days - even up through Roy Williams pre-covid - you could recruit good players, develop and keep them on the bench until they were ready to play, and maintain team consistency from one year to the next. That's virtually impossible now - pretty much every season you're building teams from scratch, and so every season is a question mark to some extent. It's hard to keep and develop non-starters as many of them will transfer if they don't get the playing time they think they deserve, and if they do have talent another program will simply try to lure them away with higher payments. Paying players and getting them paid advertisements isn't as much of a problem with UNC, but I'm beginning to wonder if any coach we bring in will have the kind of consistent success that Dean or Roy (pre-covid) had.
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It definitely doesn't help that the one team which is always consistently in the conversation of the top teams is our biggest rival, and it doesn't appear that they are falling off anytime soon. I think many of the disgruntled fans would be able to accept your point if that wasn't the case.
 
superrific said:
He inherited a bad situation. Last year was really the first time he had full control over the direction of the program, assuming he wasn't going to show Caleb Love the door after his sophomore year. That guy was a program killer. I've seen it before. Kaufman guy at Illinois a long time ago. Nobody really wanted to play with Caleb; he retarded the development of some of our players; and he was bad for chemistry.

So if you want to criticize him for last year, that's fair. But Caleb Love was a problem and until he left there wasn't going to be success.
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I completely disagree with your take on Love. Please elaborate on your claims.
 
stankeylegjones said:
There's no such thing as a "guaranteed proven winner" coming in because you can't predict the future. The best possible way to ensure you're going to get the best coach is to do an actual search and hire the person you think is best for the program. When HD is no longer coach, that is what I hope they do.
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As long as you recognize that it potentially (or likely) means a coach with no ties to the school or tradition. Someone who may or may not produce results any different than HD. Very possibly worse results, since they’ll be starting over completely.

Couple that with a team full of players we’ve never heard of, hired for a year at a time. Zero continuity with the program, the coach, or players.

And that will be your new Carolina basketball. The name on the front of the jersey only goes so far in that scenario.

IMO all you guys wringing your hands and going on indignantly about “UNC standards” over a midseason road loss against a good team that played over its head… you should be very very careful what you wish for.
 
duluoz said:
As long as you recognize that it potentially (or likely) means a coach with no ties to the school or tradition. Someone who may or may not produce results any different than HD. Very possibly worse results, since they’ll be starting over completely.

Couple that with a team full of players we’ve never heard of, hired for a year at a time. Zero continuity with the program, the coach, or players.

And that will be your new Carolina basketball. The name on the front of the jersey only goes so far in that scenario.

IMO all you guys wringing your hands and going on indignantly about “UNC standards” over a midseason road loss against a good team that played over its head… you should be very very careful what you wish for.
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I get what you're saying, you want the staff to have a tie with "Carolina Basketball." I disagree. We bring in many players every year who have zero tie to "Carolina Basketball," only to be a part of it and create it. To me, a "Carolina Basketball" team is not based on if the coaches went there, and I also don't think only those with "Carolina Basketball" can cultivate it.
 
BillOfRights said:
UK is 9-5 with a $22,000,000 payroll. Do you think Mark Pope gets fired this year?
St Johns is 9-5 and lost at home today to #78 Providence. Should Rick Pitino be on the hot seat?
Mick Cronin? He's 10-4 with Donovan Dent and lost to Cal.
Florida is 9-4 and lost to #53 TCU? Is Todd Golden out?
Sean Miller at 9-4 #47 Texas?
Wes Miller at #66 Cincinnati? They lost at home to #209 E Michigan and are 8-6.

I think if Carolina went undefeated, some of you would complain that they didn't win by a large enough margin of victory.
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Such a great post, and perfect testament to the way sports fans generally have a tendency to disconnect their brains from their spinal chords.
 
stankeylegjones said:
I get what you're saying, you want the staff to have a tie with "Carolina Basketball." I disagree. We bring in many players every year who have zero tie to "Carolina Basketball," only to be a part of it and create it. To me, a "Carolina Basketball" team is not based on if the coaches went there, and I also don't think only those with "Carolina Basketball" can cultivate it.
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Not at all costs. I’m saying that HD’s results (overall and this season) haven’t been nearly as bad as many of you make them out to be, and there are countless legitimate reasons why they haven’t been better in this f’d up post-covid, portal, NIL climate.

And I’m saying that everyone willing to usher him out the door had better understand *exactly* what they’re giving up in doing so. Something that took over half a century to build in the Dean/Roy era, something you don’t just “cultivate” in a couple years… and it seems to me that it’s not being appreciated or considered in any context beyond “I’m mad my team isn’t winning as much as they used to and I demand change now!” Which, that’s certainly one way to be a fan. Fair enough. It’s just not my way in this case. It’s much more complicated than that, and I’m much more reluctant to give it up, especially when there’s *zero* contingency plan beyond “do a search and choose the best option,” as if it’s a given that top choices would even want the job.

And especially when the team is 13 and fucking 2. Give me a break.
 
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