Biorhythms for Carolina @SMU: 2:15 Start on CW

So a lot of calls to fire Coach Davis and he is 13-2.

Yesterday SMU started 4 seniors who have been in the program all four years. Those guys shot 62% and scored 78 points

If I had to bet, I would bet that SMU will do better than us throughout the season because they are a team of experienced seniors who have been together since they were freshmen. They also have a very good coach.

I would not be shocked if they made the Final Four. This team has the ingredients for a national championship recipe ;)
 
duluoz said:
And I guess I just don’t understand why you think it could be rebuilt, ever… but especially in this money-first, advertising and sponsorship driven climate. It’s like thinking we could sprout another Everest in our lifetimes.

At least be honest with yourself and acknowledge that what you’re advocating for amounts to the end of the Dean Smith era. Own up to that, and say you’re ok with trading that for a chance at some more wins, and I’d respectfully disagree. Otherwise, I think your stance is just petulant and full of shit.
Click to expand...
The “Dean Smith era” is gone, it left when he retired. We then had the “Bill Guthridge era.” Then the “Matt Doherty era.” Followed by the “Roy Williams era.” And now, the “Hubert Davis era.” The beauty of “Carolina Basketball” is that it continued on, which I’m confident in saying that Dean Smith wanted. I also don’t think Dean Smith believed that only those who had a prior tie to UNC were/are capable of continuing it.
 
Last edited:
stankeylegjones said:
The “Dean Smith era” is gone, it left when he retired. We then had the “Bill Guthridge era.” Then the “Matt Doherty era.” Followed by the “Roy Williams era.” And now, the “Hubert Davis era.” The beauty of “Carolina Basketball” is that it continued on, which I’m confident in saying that Dean Smith wanted. I also don’t think Dean Smith believed that only those who had a prior tie to UNC were/are capable of continuing it.
Click to expand...
Did he not want Rick Majeurus (sp?) at one point?
 
BillOfRights said:
Yes, Carolina brings in players every year with no ties to the Carolina Basketball tradition, but the environment is already in place for them to become acclimated. If Carolina were to bring in someone with no ties to Carolina, with a new staff with no ties, and mostly new players with no ties, then the culture would be almost nonexistent. The history would still be there, but the culture wouldn't.

I understand that is an option that has to be considered when the time comes to hire a new coach, but then the Carolina basketball program becomes less special and more like Kentucky or UCLA with history but now only about winning at all costs. That day may one time come to Carolina, but I'm not looking forward to it.
Click to expand...
I simply don’t think it means UNC has become “win at all costs” if they hire the best fit, without imposing the requirement that they can only select from the group that has played for UNC.
 
donbosco said:
and our exposure has not been as positive as has that of the school in (and I think that to a very small but noticeable degree fans contribute to that in plus or minus ways).
Click to expand...
This is a good point. I don't really follow Duke message board chatter, but it sure doesn't seem like Duke fans are bad-mouthing and second-guessing everything about the coaching staff and the direction of the program like so many UNC "fans" seem to do. And if you don't think that has an effect on potential recruits, you're fooling yourself. I'm sure at least some recruits have seen the constant, never-ending negative blabber of UNC message board fans and thought to themselves "do I really want to play for fans like this?" Maybe there is a cadre of Duke fans who are just as vocal in their seemingly constant negativity towards their coaching staff and direction of their program but I haven't seen it..
 
duluoz said:
And I guess I just don’t understand why you think it could be rebuilt, ever… but especially in this money-first, advertising and sponsorship driven climate. It’s like thinking we could sprout another Everest in our lifetimes.

At least be honest with yourself and acknowledge that what you’re advocating for amounts to the end of the Dean Smith era. Own up to that, and say you’re ok with trading that for a chance at some more wins, and I’d respectfully disagree. Otherwise, I think your stance is just petulant and full of shit.
Click to expand...
You can disagree with someone’s stance on HD without being so dramatic and combative. Petulant and full of shit? Take a look in the mirror guy.
 
hedge said:
This is a good point. I don't really follow Duke message board chatter, but it sure doesn't seem like Duke fans are bad-mouthing and second-guessing everything about the coaching staff and the direction of the program like so many UNC "fans" seem to do. And if you don't think that has an effect on potential recruits, you're fooling yourself. I'm sure at least some recruits have seen the constant, never-ending negative blabber of UNC message board fans and thought to themselves "do I really want to play for fans like this?" Maybe there is a cadre of Duke fans who are just as vocal in their seemingly constant negativity towards their coaching staff and direction of their program but I haven't seen it..
Click to expand...
Don’t be naive. If Dook had the up and down results that we’ve had the last few seasons then their fans would absolutely be complaining about it too.
 
donbosco said:
I admit that I'm curious as to how Sheyer has managed to continue the high level of landing top recruits that Rat was able to do, especially in the current Wild West Days of Pay to Play.

I get that to some degree that this can be attributed to the machine-like nature of what Rat built there and the legacy that remains. The voices like Vitale, Williams, and Bilas (and other dook lovers in the media) are loud in the ears of players and parents (Currently we have no comparative voice save that of Kenny Smith in the media). And of course the domino effect of continued success and the concomitant exposure that brings.

We get our share of such things but at present there is no comparison -- and our exposure has not been as positive as has that of the school in derm (and I think that to a very small but noticeable degree fans contribute to that in plus or minus ways). @finesse makes a good point in mentioning the different standards to which a public and a private have historically been held. We've shot ourselves in the foot and had the BOG take aim at said feet over the past few years. No doubt just the same most of the recruits (and some of their parents) are completely tone-deaf to anything other than MONEY at present, but I have to imagine there is at least some effect.

Caleb Wilson is, by the way, a true boon to our image and it is imperative that he get as much exposure as possible in Carolina Blue as possible.
Click to expand...
dook had several things in place when Scheyer took over. One was for years a private equity group existed to help fund the program. Now that paying players is legal, they can work openly.

They also put in an infrastructure to help - like embracing multiple staff to do in game video, etc.

They keep close contact with pro coaches even to the point of enlisting them to help come up with a one year, best plan for Cooper Flagg.

I absolutely agree that their being private has helped them over the years.
 
LeoBloom said:
dook had several things in place when Scheyer took over. One was for years a private equity group existed to help fund the program. Now that paying players is legal, they can work openly.

They also put in an infrastructure to help - like a number embracing multiple staff to do in game video, etc.

They keep close contact with pro coaches even to the point of enlisting them to help come up with a one year, best plan for Cooper Flagg.

I absolutely agree that their being private has helped them over the years.
Click to expand...

And once upon a time I’d say that being public helped us - but that is gone with the wind.
 
donbosco said:
I admit that I'm curious as to how Sheyer has managed to continue the high level of landing top recruits that Rat was able to do, especially in the current Wild West Days of Pay to Play.

I get that to some degree that this can be attributed to the machine-like nature of what Rat built there and the legacy that remains. The voices like Vitale, Williams, and Bilas (and other dook lovers in the media) are loud in the ears of players and parents (Currently we have no comparative voice save that of Kenny Smith in the media). And of course the domino effect of continued success and the concomitant exposure that brings.

We get our share of such things but at present there is no comparison -- and our exposure has not been as positive as has that of the school in derm (and I think that to a very small but noticeable degree fans contribute to that in plus or minus ways). @finesse makes a good point in mentioning the different standards to which a public and a private have historically been held. We've shot ourselves in the foot and had the BOG take aim at said feet over the past few years. No doubt just the same most of the recruits (and some of their parents) are completely tone-deaf to anything other than MONEY at present, but I have to imagine there is at least some effect.

Caleb Wilson is, by the way, a true boon to our image and it is imperative that he get as much exposure as possible in Carolina Blue.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we haven’t recruited on the level that Duke has for the past 15+ years. Even going back to the HS class of 2010 when Harrison Barnes— the no. 1 player in the class— picked UNC over Duke, Duke still got the best player in that class in Kyrie Irving.
 
heelinhell said:
So a lot of calls to fire Coach Davis and he is 13-2.

Yesterday SMU started 4 seniors who have been in the program all four years. Those guys shot 62% and scored 78 points

If I had to bet, I would bet that SMU will do better than us throughout the season because they are a team of experienced seniors who have been together since they were freshmen. They also have a very good coach.

I would not be shocked if they made the Final Four. This team has the ingredients for a national championship recipe ;)
Click to expand...
Wait … that second paragraph re: SMU starting four seniors who have been in the program isn’t true. Or am I missing something in the post?
 
Icky Mettle said:
Yeah, we haven’t recruited on the level that Duke has for the past 15+ years. Even going back to the HS class of 2010 when Harrison Barnes— the no. 1 player in the class— picked UNC over Duke, Duke still got the best player in that class in Kyrie Irving.
Click to expand...

Interesting comparison. Which one of those men do you think could find their way around the campus of the school that they played for?
 
stankeylegjones said:
There's no such thing as a "guaranteed proven winner" coming in because you can't predict the future. The best possible way to ensure you're going to get the best coach is to do an actual search and hire the person you think is best for the program. When HD is no longer coach, that is what I hope they do.
Click to expand...
When Doherty was fired Roy Williams was about as close to a "guaranteed proven winner" as you were going to get - it seemed clear that if he was hired he would be highly successful here. My point - which you basically made for me - is that this time there is no coach who clearly seems as if they would do a better job than Davis. Right now college coaching consists of a few famous faces who are either at or close to retirement age (Calipari, Self, Izzo, Pitino), some young up-and-comers who, like Davis, have yet to establish themselves as consistent winners over a long period of time at a high level, and some very sleazy types like Pearl at Auburn. There are very few available college coaches with a resume to indicate they would do better than Davis at taking us to another level or taking us back to our pre-covid consistency. They may be out there, but finding them is going to be a lot harder and much more uncertain than it was in 2003 we hired Williams.

And I've said repeatedly that if this season goes south then Davis should be gone. What I find frustrating is the seeming belief of his critics that there is someone clearly better who is just waiting in the wings to take over, and right now I don't see it. And frankly, given our head football coaching search I'm not at all sure that I trust the powers-that-be to hire anyone who is better.
 
Last edited:
stankeylegjones said:
It definitely doesn't help that the one team which is always consistently in the conversation of the top teams is our biggest rival, and it doesn't appear that they are falling off anytime soon. I think many of the disgruntled fans would be able to accept your point if that wasn't the case.
Click to expand...
And yet that team has yet to win a title under Scheyer and has the same number of Final Fours as Davis, despite all of their recruiting successes. And they've suffered some humiliating NCAA Tourney losses on the national stage under him. Maybe Scheyer will start winning titles, maybe he won't, but one could certainly make a strong argument that so far Scheyer is actually "doing less with more" than Davis has. He's been more consistent, but so far doesn't have much hardware to show for it. I will say that if Scheyer does win a title then that would obviously greatly increase the pressure on Davis.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top