thebruinbleedstarheelblue
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Complete failure is what it takes?
Biorhythms for Carolina @Virginia: Noon Start
- Thread starter donbosco
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- UNC Sports
thebruinbleedstarheelblue
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I am grew up in that dome and had Hubert's haircut aa a kittle kid I idolized him soo much...still think this inconsistency and challenges in this new era(which should benefit Carolina) are below the standard...and that its going nowhere.
I hope I'm wrong.
Not sure how it benefits blue bloods. It dilutes brand and replaces it with money. See Indiana in football. Portal gives power to the players.
UNC not only one struggling. Kentucky. Kansas. I can't explain dook except we all know that money is meaningless there. They give $4 mil to a QB knowing that Wallace wade will still be half empty.
I said after last season that Hubert would be given chance to build roster and we will see what he does with it. Well he did and story still being written. He got us Caleb BTW.
Let season play out. I do think he is growing as a coach. The second half yesterday was very dean smith like.
WWDD?
CarolinaFever
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The consistency is the thing for me, too. I am just used to Carolina being a program almost every year that could be an actual contender for the Final Four. How many years straight did Dean make the Sweet 16? It was a crazy number. I know things have changed but I don't thing the program should just settle for being ok now and not care about being as consistent of a program as it was in the past. To be fair, I think this actually started happening when Roy was coaching. His final few years the teams were inconsistent, but Roy had more leeway because of his history and success. I do want Hubert to succeed because that means the team and program succeeds. But that's why I said in my post after the win yesterday that I hope this is the start of more consistency with this team.
donbosco
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So models of successful leadership in addressing these challenges can be found where do you think?
Heelsandeers
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It’s Hubert trying something after other lines ups haven’t worked and Young was giving them good minutes. You need Jarin off the bench and 3 guards is easier to cover and recover on ball screens
You still want Boga off the bench imo and Evans had ample opportunities to prove he should be starting. Powell to me is someone who at least earned the opportunity and gives you slightly better defense and rebounding than Young
He's also not really a backup for Dixon or Seth so playing him minutes with the those two makes sense
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It's easiest to take your points one-by-one, so that's what I'll do.
It's up to players to play with energy and make make plays, but when we have game after game and season after season of different players not playing with energy and not making plays, then the ultimate blame lies with the coaches. And, on the whole under HD, a wide variety of players have consistently not made the plays. Again, this is back to the it's not about "one game" or "one season" excuse...our team failing to play up to their talent level is a consistent issue under HD.
I think that HD has likely improved as a coach during his time as HC, but it's not been enough to make a difference in our overall performance across multiple games and seasons. If someone isn't meeting the base level goals, it doensn't really matter that they're only failing by 25% rather than 50%.
My issue with enjoying games is that we have many of the same problems over the last 5 games that we had over the first 18 games of the 2021-2022 season...the team simply doesn't seem to play hard, smart, and together in a way that both maximizes their individual abilities nor the ability of the collective team to succeed. Again, I have little doubt that HD is a better coach than he was when he was hired, but he's not improved enough that the team is consistently successful.
I find this season (and nearly every season under HD) utterly frustrating. Our players are clearly talented in total and each player has skills that should contribute to team success, but the performance of the team, in total, has been and continues to be that we don't play well - either against our potential nor against actual opponents - on a consistent basis. The second half of yesterday's game was a lot of fun, but that kind of collective performance has been rare under HD. And I have little evidence that the next half or the next game or the rest of the season will show similarly good performance as we saw in the second half yeasterday, which makes it pretty hard to be excited about that half or that game or the rest of the season.
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I know I keep posting about Dixon, but I’m just really impressed by him. He is actually sort of reminding me of a freshman Marcus Paige, but with a better three-point %. I don’t think he’s quite as good of a ball handler and he doesn’t seem quite as quick, but he seems to bring a lot of things to the table that Marcus Paige did.
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The Carolina "brand" that Dean constructed and Roy enhanced was just as viable as ever when HD took over as head coach and HD's success has almost certainly been because of that brand and not in spite of it. If HD had started his career at Wake Forest or Syracuse or Boston College, it's very unlikely he'd have the moderate success he's had at Carolina because it's unlikely he'd have the players at those schools he's had at Carolina. The brand has helped HD far more than any lack of it has harmed him.
I don't think that this team with Cadeau is a favorite to win it all, but I think Cadeau would likely make the team better. I also think that the largest share of blame for Cadeau leaving falls on HD because HD didn't utilize Cadeau well in the 2 seasons he was here nor did he make retaining Cadeau a significant priority after last season.
Whoever told you that shooting 65% on the west coast from the FT line would have meant winning those games was selling you a load of bull. Ignoring the effects of the front ends of 1-1s and any other secondary effects of FT shooting on the overall game, we'd have had to have shot 81.3% from the FT line against Stanford and 85.7% from the line against Cal for FT shooting alone to have made the difference in the game.
I'm not going to bother to address the rest of your post because they're hypotheticals for which you provde no support nor do they have any actual impact on the discussion of HD's performance as head coach.
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I usually just skip over these debates about the right way to be a fan. I will say the thing that irritates me a little about those on the more critical side is it doesn’t feel like they’re rooting for Hubert. I’m not saying they aren’t. That’s just the way it feels to me. And that’s hard for me to read because he’s such a big part of UNC basketball history. He’s one of a handful of players I remember being a really big fan of as a kid. I don’t know how long he’ll be the head coach, but as long as he’s here, I will be pulling so hard for his success.
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With other leaders who have successfully shown they know how to better navigate the modern world of college basketball.
If you'd like examples, I'd suggest Dan Hurley, Kelvin Sampson, Nate Oats, Dusty May, Tommy Lloyd, TJ Otzelberger, or Grant McCasland (among others).
Now, to be clear, I'm not suggesting any or all of those folks would be appropriate to be the HC at Carolina or would come here if offered the opportunity, but they're all coaches who seem to be doing well in the modern era of CBB.
I'm not going to argue that they have been successful but I sure would argue that there's not nearly enough of a sample size to tell if they found more than lightning in a bottle. Five years is a lot more episodic than a real trend.
stankeylegjones
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Who knows why someone would start such a thread, could be trying to stir things up.
For whatever reason this comment by you hit for me, paraphrasing: this is arguably UNC’s best win in the past four years. That beating the 14th ranked team on the road is arguably the best win in the past four years really sums up the state of the program.
Bigs23
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No, but without that the choices become more difficult and complex.
Are you looking at it in context of UNC beating a 14th ranked team? Or are you looking at it as a team, facing a higher ranked team who is undefeated at home , who is coming off a couple of tough losses sucking it up after falling behind and salvaging a win while getting back in contention for an NCAA bid? To me, context matters.
I should have checked on the FT thing.
UNC brand means very little now. It's about money. You would have fired Dean Smith I am sure.
This is a new day. There is an incredible amount of talent now. Much more than back in the day. Harder to dominate IMO. We are probably a round of 16 team now. Put EC on this team we got as good a chance as anyone but maybe dook and one or two more. The problem last year for EC was we had no outlet in the lane, which is why he and RJ had to force so many end of clock bad shots. EC would have thrived with Wilson and Vesscar. We are getting much better in half court offense. I think I heard yesterday we were one of top teams in 2 point fg defense. Perhaps cal and Stanford were an anomaly. Anyway we got a week to enjoy this win.
WWDD?
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I think this is an interesting perspective and I'd like to address it from someone who is solidly in the "HD shouldn't be our coach going forward" camp.
I am certainly rooting for the team and the program. I want this team to win every game they play. I want the program to succeed.
Now as it comes to HD, specifically, it's a lot murkier. I recognize that his personal success as a HC at Carolina is directly tied to the team's success. And I want the team to be successful, so I ultimately want HD to be success as long as he's at Carolina. But I am not terribly emotionally tied to HD's personal success as a coach. I loved him as a player at Carolina and hoped he'd be successful in whatever he did after Carolina, but I'm simply not that connected to him as Coach Hubert Davis. And I also have come to the conclusion over 5 seasons that HD as HC does not give the program the best shot at future success. So for me, there's a disconnect there as I want to Hubert to be personally successful in a distanced way and I certainly want him to be successful as the HC of Carolina Basketball, but I also have come to the conclusion that his continued presence as HC at Carolina is almost certainly detrimental to the future success of the program, so in that sense I am ready for him to move on after the conclusion of this season to whatever next role life has in store for him.
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If you look at 5 years as a data set of ~175 games (~35 games per season) rather than only 5 discrete data points each a season long, there is much more data to use for evaluation and you can start to get a reasonable approximation of how each coach handles their duties.
If you're going to evaluate coaches by seasons as discrete data points and reduce the data no further, then you can almost never make claims about how good any coach is because even the legends rarely coach beyond 40 years and that wouldn't be a great number of individual data points from which to evaluate.
Who did you want UNC to hire instead of Hubert? Curious.
donbosco
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Addendum: I think one of the things that has historically made Carolina a destination for good high school players has essentially evaporated for the vast majority of them. That is the school, the academics, the atmosphere, and yes, the history. I don't have my Carolina basketball library with me now but reading the stories of what attracted the top prospects to UNC over the years it was Chapel Hill itself...the campus...the reputation of scholarship...the pull of a diploma from UNC that often made a difference. Of course there is also MJ and Vince Carter and the numerous NBA All-Stars that contributed mightily to that attraction over the years...clearly the money was already chipping away at the Carolina Appeal during Coach Williams' tenure.
Caleb Wilson is a throwback if you believe that he chose Carolina because of the historic types of things...99% of the rest are going for money and exposure now...even those with bigger dreams than talent in a lot of cases. So many spend less than 6 months on the actual campus of the school they play for...longer if they show up to play in the summer. The things that made many of us go to Carolina are non-factors now.
"“I picked North Carolina because of their culture and the history of the program,..." he added, "“I just looked at who the coach was, I was able to build a good relationship with him, looking at the roster and also just seeing how much the coach believed in me over the time he knew me..."
Caleb Wilson is a throwback if you believe that he chose Carolina because of the historic types of things...99% of the rest are going for money and exposure now...even those with bigger dreams than talent in a lot of cases. So many spend less than 6 months on the actual campus of the school they play for...longer if they show up to play in the summer. The things that made many of us go to Carolina are non-factors now.
"“I picked North Carolina because of their culture and the history of the program,..." he added, "“I just looked at who the coach was, I was able to build a good relationship with him, looking at the roster and also just seeing how much the coach believed in me over the time he knew me..."